Try to predict Nerf/Buff/QoL of 4.2 Healer Edition

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Originally Posted by Heilstos

RE: Picture

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AST shields to NOT need to be buffed up. that means that SCH shields have to be buffed up again. I don't play SCH, frankly i suck at it, but a Shield buff for the "Famed" Hybrid healer is not going to make things better, but we'll have another 3.X series patch of one healer being left out because of that.

As Kabzy said, WHMs didn't get hit with the nerf stick too bad (PI's Potencies...well...it's situationally used anyway in non-savage content, i guess?) but SCHs still got a lot of the bad end. I don't see this as anything good, just like some of the other AST "suggestions" people have given that all boil down to "Make their shields stronger!"

And thus we have the problem with how SE does Noct Astro. Back before 3.3, there were only 2 logs of A8S with Whm/noct astro since it was pathetic compared to whm/sc and astro/sch. Come 3.3, we see what SE started to view it. SCH would be more flexible (deploy tactics, emergency tactics, fairy buffs) while Noct Astro would get stronger shield to make up for this lack of options(when aspected helios got buffed from 100 to 120 percent and making it stronger than succor by 15 percent much like how it is now). Next, comes patch 3.4, where they buffed the shielding of the noct astro up the wazoo, the noct stance getting up from 5 to 10 percent, 130 to 170 for aspected benefic and 120 to 150 for aspected helios plus the cards buffs which kinda render it moot though. 4.0 they make aspected benefic about 37 percent stronger with the change in shielding and aspected helios being 43 percent stronger before the buff to succor brought it down to 15 percent. Edited for limit.

As we can see, what SE's problem is with Noct Astro is that they only buff shield potency. They don't try to make it different to play, they don't add effects to the shields themselves. cards don't get any bonus under noct etc etc. Their go-to solution for noct astro is to make their shields stronger and nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Heilstos

And I can understand the whole Raidleader from Ultimatestatics, who takes SCH over an Noc. AST after the 4.1 Patch. They don´t want have a "shild" healer, who have lost much Utility and lacking Option to reinforce his shild power.(The group has to adapt to YOU, as an astro, because YOU, as an astro, can not comfort the group, due to the lack of options.)

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When you say Ultimatestatics, you're referring to Endless Coil right?

The issue there isn't so much that AST is underpowered, but rather that it's cooldowns and abilities simply don't mesh nearly as neatly with the content at hand.

Indom's faster cooldown easily outweighs Earthly Star's far superior potency with the constant barrage of AoEs that Coil throws at you.

Aspected Helios' slow cast time makes it unwieldy to use compared to succor.

Taken in isolation, AST's buffs are superior, however Chain can be guaranteed to align which Trick and such which allows it to punch far above it's weight.

Even little things such as SCH being able to apply mitigation at a distance with Sacred Soil in a manner which AST cannot.

Compare this to Savage, where Noct is much more competitive in the overall picture. It's also worth looking back to BCOB and SCOB where BLM and SMN swiftly traded seats in the 'meta' despite nothing actually changing initially. It was purely a case of the job not suiting the content (Furthermore, play count the BLMs in Unending Coil).

Yes it is and arguably always has been a bit underwhelming, but that's certainly not going to be fixed by a huge bump on it's shield potencies (Which would cause huge issues with end game content, I really don't get why you keep suggesting these bonkers numbers).

SE need to actually sit down and figure out where they want Noct AST to fit in the grand scheme of things and actually push it in that direction. The change to spear was a good start, but more needs to be done imho.

Ironically, whilst SCH is also back to being a powerhouse, IMHO I think the job still needs quite a lot of attention there too, primarily QoL stuff mind.

Hey Sebazy Spiritwalker,

These numbers were just an exaggeration (and should not be taken seriously !!!). I agree, like the rest here. It can not be the solution to raise the Shield Multipliers senselessly. Just to not worry about how far you should work with the Nocturnal Astro, because the shields are thick enough. And I dont belive that the Nocturnal Astro is underpowered.

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The change to spear was a good start, but more needs to be done imho.

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I agree, but the new spear opens option thats true, but it has problems in the Astro Cardsystem.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/yoH6...l5gzsF-SBw.png

There are so much Option for the Noc. Astro:

- Conception: For Time Dilation/Celestial Opposition in Nocturnal

- What I have often read the last few days. Is the idea that the pvp Synastry could come to PvE.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/OAXN...WS2XT4Mfdw.png

The percentage should then be redefined and can not stay at 40% if the cooldown is shortened. But it could be a nice QoL change.

- Manacostsreduction on Aspected Benefic/Aspected Helios ?

-> in the case from "Aspected Helios" less cast time ?

Options and concepts are some there that can be realized. But that is in the hands of the developers.That's why I hope that the discussions, as well as the developers are perceived.

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Originally Posted by Heilstos

- What I have often read the last few days. Is the idea that the pvp Synastry could come to PvE.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/OAXN...WS2XT4Mfdw.png

The percentage should then be redefined and can not stay at 40% if the cooldown is shortened. But it could be a nice QoL change.

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Don't think synastry should be changed, since it is the only ability that can "compete" with Benediction.
That would be awful in cases like when DRK uses Living dead. Instead of using one Benefic 2 and Dignity to put them at 100%HP we would have to cast it twice.
Although, I wouldn't disagree that that change would be good for most of the tank busters (specially if you don't have a DRK).

I'd say nerf AST's shields to be weaker than SCH's, but let Time Dilation/Celestial Opposition increase their strength. CO would be 50% for the whole party (effectively turning it into Deployment Tactics), TD 50% for one target. In order to stay relatively balanced with SCH, AST's Noct Helios' shield potency would be reduced to 130%, while Noct Benefic would remain unchanged. However, in order to prevent people stacking these cooldowns to create a ridiculous 1.3k potency Noct Benefic shield, these spells would overwrite the old shield with a new "overshield" buff with the increased potency, that could not be buffed further.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

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1) That all sounded confusing AF, to me at least.
2) The only shield that would be spread or made more powerful would be their ST one, like Adloquium. So if that wasn't nerfed, you're still ending up with ridiculously OP shields.
3) As has been mentioned before, it's not really the shielding aspect of the job that is hindering it.

Why would you want to give AST Deployment Tactics? I don't see the upside of making the healers even more similar than they already are.

I don't want much changes outside of QoL and maybe a slight nerf to scholar, because at the moment it is the go to healer. High personal dmg, underestimated raid utility and very good mitigation options.

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Originally Posted by Aeducan

SCH: Selene... bless her heart. It has come to a point where people start asking me to switch to Eos even though I assured them that I can keep them alive with Selene.

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Those people probably wanted eos, because eos is good at healing and can give both healers more time to dps. As for selene... At this point, it is probably best to delete selene in her current state and add her to Dissipation with a few new skills to make her more useful.

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Originally Posted by Caduagm

Something to weave ogcds on ast.
The clipping is awful atm and makes ppl sick.

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Please this.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Taken in isolation, AST's buffs are superior, however Chain can be guaranteed to align which Trick and such which allows it to punch far above it's weight.

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I agree with you and imo balance isn't as strong as people think it is. There are some people doing the math and the last time i read something about it, was that in theory you need about 30-40% balance uptime to make ast/sch a stronger comp in terms of raiddps than whm/sch, because the latter push out an insane amount of personal dmg. Of course balance buffs everyones dmg and if the group cares more about their own dmg than the killtime of an encounter, than ast/sch is the go to comp. It is just interesting imo to see that ast/sch hasn't the 100% "save spot" in terms of raid dps as most people make it out to be.

The only issue I have currently with healers is Sacred Soil still being the most underwhelming and niche Aetherflow related skill for SCH.
It consumes a stack, is not compatible with Shadowflare, its additional effect is pretty useless because of its randomness, 10% damage reduction is simply not enough to be worth it for most situations, and it may take up to three seconds to get applied if you weren't lucky with server ticks.

I'd like it to be useful in more situations. I don't know, give a free Succor 100% of the time and slap a +10% healing received on the buff it grants to people inside and it'd make it a great competitor to Indom from time to time.