Too many "Must-Haves" in the Role Choices Menu.

I think the problem isn't really the must have sine FFXIV doesn't follow the same class balance philosophie then WoW. WoW want all DPS class to deal the same damage while SE balance the game around a more utility = less DPS.

IMO the problem is the fact that dungeon only have 4 players group and trial only 8.

So basicaly your down to only 2 DPS in dungeon and 4 in trial making utility too good to not be picked.

Lets take samurai as an example. IF SE would up their DPS to make them beeing optimal in 4-8 players group poeple would cry and call for nerf and I couldn't blame them. Sam would have the Pew Pew factor while beeing more usefull.

But giving them only a tiny edge on DPS while having no utility take them out of the meta.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maeka

1) .. stuff..

---

Absolutely this..
And to reply to those who said that a macro is a very simple and convenient thing to do and that it will not give you more bottons.. well.. it's not true..

Let's make a couple of example:
-somebody first said that you should make a macro that exchange Protect for Esuna and that will not give you more bottons. As said, you will not be able to reapply Protect if someone dies. And also.. even after considering that, this macro will cover you only if Esuna and Protect are the only ones you consider to exchange between. What if in that dungeon/situation you don't need Esuna? You do ANOTHER MACRO on top of that one? How do you combine them?

-What about other abilities? - Someone elses says that for tanks Low Blow should be traded for Reprisal when facing bosses, and i agree. But that i think can be ONLY done going in menus OR with ANOTHER MACRO BUTTON. So what about the purpose of SE to eliminate buttons from hotbars?

Not everything us essential, but specific ones are for specific content.
I quite like the idea of different loadouts for different content.
Like I don't need Low Blow when raiding. I do need Intervention for o3s. Shirk is great for o2s a different o4s, while useless to me in o1s and o3s. If I'm maim tanking o3s I'll take Awareness - which is also great for mass pulls in dungeons.

So again, there's no real issue having many useful skills when only so many are needed at once.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canadane

Not everything us essential, but specific ones are for specific content.
I quite like the idea of different loadouts for different content.
Like I don't need Low Blow when raiding. I do need Intervention for o3s. Shirk is great for o2s a different o4s, while useless to me in o1s and o3s. If I'm maim tanking o3s I'll take Awareness - which is also great for mass pulls in dungeons.

So again, there's no real issue having many useful skills when only so many are needed at once.

---

So again.. why bother?
Why SE make us equip in a way before a dungeon and in another way before a raid? Wouldn't be just the same eliminate this system at all and let just keep every skill? It's just a bothersome, masked in an illusion of "choice"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maeka

So we got rid of the Cross-Class System (which I'm all on-

---

The stuns are really not even worth the slot especially on like drk for instance you literally have no df cool downs, so you need antipation, awareness, rampart, and conv, and provoke all slots filled. And in raids shrike prob moving antipation but for dungeons Id say antipation is a must have consider the lack of df cool downs. Lowblow just wasnt even an potion at all to me u barely ever have to stun in this game. Healer cross roll jsut sucks pretty much

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canadane

So again, there's no real issue having many useful skills when only so many are needed at once.

---

I'd argue the issue is that half the skills aren't all that useful to begin with. You generally have a few you never swap out, a few you never consider, and then the remaining 3-4, you have a couple you only ever swap out in the 1% of content that suddenly demands a specific mechanic, like ignoring a knockback.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maeka

1). So, when you queue for a random dungeon, you feel like standing there tweaking your role choices menu to take/get rid of Esuna depending on which dungeon you're doing? lol, no thanks. I'm going to leave it on because I do lots of Roulettes and I don't know ahead of time what I'm going to get and about the time I take it off to take something else, I'll forget it and I'll find myself at Exdeath or something with no Esuna... because I forgot about it.

This is why the role choices system is flawed and it needs tweaks.

---

The role system should just be like sub jobs.

<insert Job>
Select role then auto equips a set of skills or traits

Equip Tank Role:
Tank stuff

Equip Support Role:
Support Stuff

Equip Healer Role:
Support heals

Etc, etc,etc

The role system really does feel poorly though out. It's more 'here's a bunch of abilities you need and a bunch of useless ones' than 'you can bring X amount of abilities and create interesting and unique ways to utilise them in party content.

Much of the abilities barely have a reason to exist. Yes, there may be a raid level in the future where Break is utilised...or you could just have your physical ranged DPS do it instantly with a 15 second cooldown, and it'/ pretty much guaranteed that you're never going to need to inflict Heavy on several enemies at once within 15 seconds of each other, because such a thing isn't possible for any job. With enemy movement speeds, if you need to inflict Heavy on say 4 enemies at the same time, by the time you've cast Break on the first three the 4th will likely already have reached their destination. If they're so slow that there's no jeopardy of this happening, why bother using Heavy? Even if this situation did arise, you''d be better off using Tether or Tri-bind to Bind them all at once than putting Heavy on several enemies. It's a slippery slope when you have to justify using resources to create an ability that 'you might use one day in the future maybe'. Especially in a game with the limitations XIV has, as they simply cannot add or remove abilities outside of expansion.

Many role abilities fall into this category. Cleric Stance, Drain, Break, Esuna, Rescue, Graze abilities, even Provoke and Ultimatum, all share this aspect in one way or another.
Cleric Stance increases your damage dealt by 5%, which I can't imagine would add something substantial to the damage you do. Certainly not enough to make you think "I am going to be playing more offensively in this fight so I'd better use this over X ability'

Drain exists for no reason at all, Red Mages can use Vercure only 6 levels after you unlock it, Summoner has a tank pet for soloing and can use Physick if thy desperately need a source of healing (at least until Sustain returns). Black Mages have crowd control in the form of Sleep, Freeze, Blizzard II for soloing, and is generally designed to defeat the enemy before they get a chance to counter.

Esuna, Provoke and Ultimatum, and to a lesser extent Shirk, have a similar but different problem. They're either extremely useful to the point of being required, or so useless that they might as well not exist. There's not going to be a situation where you say 'Provoke will benefit me in this fight, but so will Shirk, I need to consider the party's composition, the other tank, my own positioning relative to boss and mechanics'. You either take it or you don't; no thought required.

I feel like the role system should be given a lot more consideration into how they want it to work, it feels like it has such little impact on the game as a whole that nobody would notice if they just removed it one day

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maeka

1). So, when you queue for a random dungeon, you feel like standing there tweaking your role choices menu to take/get rid of Esuna depending on which dungeon you're doing? lol, no thanks.

---

You do know that macros to switch them easily with 1 push of the button exists right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

You do know that macros to switch them easily with 1 push of the button exists right?

---

yes and i already have 6 macros just for my dark knight and i absolutely hate it. the old system was by far more user friendly, even with the annoying "lvl this class you never wanted to play to level 32 and then never touch it again" - at least you had only to do it once, set up your skills and you are done forever with this shit.

in regards of being user friendly the constant swapping of skills is a faaaaar step back from the old system, wich was only changed because it wasn't user friendly...