Tanks and healers.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Game is too complex, you be shocked on the DPS difference on the same job just because of slight differences of what order do things in, when to use abilities, and so on.

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So you're kinda agreeing with me but for different reasons.

You're saying it is too complex for the subpar DPS to handle their own jobs, thus the tank and DPS need to do it for them...

My point is that I should not be in that position. It's not the role I picked. The people who did pick it should learn how to play their own role better rather than expecting the other people to play two roles good so they can slack off.

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Originally Posted by DamianTenbe

My whole point is that I'm fine you don't want to stance dance but don't take away that possibility from me. I feel that you can play however you like but forcing some set playstyle isn't something that I like. Pretty much I get less options on how to approach the game. Stance dance isn't maybe something that great for healers since its only 1 button and not much change at all but tanks lost a lot at this point.

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That's cool, but how would you design that toggle so it is both viable and equal, because as long as it isn't there will be strife.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

For the expecting you dps because of bad dps, I do not get why that is said. Healers should dps in this game because there is nothing else to do, it is just expecting the try and same effort.

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This. It kinda grinds my gears when I see "I have to dps as a tank/healer because the dps are bad". DPS being good and tanks/healers contributing to damage are *NOT* mutually exclusive. Does it sometimes feel that if I am not doing damage then no one is? Sure, but there are also a lot of times where *everyone* is on point and we finish the dungeon lightning fast.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

So you're kinda agreeing with me but for different reasons.
thus the tank and DPS needto do it for them...

My point is that I should not be in that position. It's not the role I picked. The people who did pick it should learn how to play their own role better rather than expecting the other people to play two roles good so they can slack off.

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It has nothing to do with this, have you tried to max a DPS job? It is not easy to do and some jobs are effected if your ping is over 100ms. Some people you are right, I am not talking about that though, I was poking at the design flaw that they are trying to change in 4.0 and it was biggest with MCH an BRD. In 3 different videos of "give me healing advice" in that closed thread, all had bad bards.

I am not saying healers need to DPS because DPS are bad at their job and too complex for the average player. I said healers should DPS because that is all you do outside pressing 1 button a minute. You DPS if you have good dps or bad ones. Because most of the time DPS are mashing buttons, they just do not know they are doing it in the wrong order. I told a few people their DPS was off and the comments I got was ""It is just expert no one cares" " you are the first one to say something" (implies they did not even realize they are actually bad.) It is a whole different thing to suffer performance because the game is coded badly for over 100 ms or hitting wrong order because it is convoluted what to do say like MCH and BRD and pushing a button a minute.

In this game we do not have things to heal or support abilities to give out, so your "support" to help things die faster is not from buffing others, but releasing your own damage.

This is also off the point why I was trying to explain why people say remove cleric and keep tank stance dancing. At the end of the day that failure to read action is most determinantal when it happens to cleric stance, everything needs fixing though, it is misplaced blame ( the ability itself, ignoring all abilities act like that)

"If I wanted to DPS I would play DPS" is the most idiotic self entitled line I've ever seen in my life.

If it is within reason for you to do more than your bare minimum role, why not? It is not about covering the asses of others, but what more YOU could bring to the group.

"It's not my problem, they should just do better so I can cruise along being a leech."

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Originally Posted by Maliki_Ozari

I'm happy that you enjoy stance dancing. I do not. I've played a healer since the game released (on and off, I take breaks here and there) and the thing that turns me off the most is stance dancing. It's not because I don't want to dps, I have no problem throwing out some damage as I like to contribute the most I can. My problem is that toggling CS just feels clunky and awkward.

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Because it IS clunky. Healers that have been raiding for ten years complain to me about it and it's for good reason. The concept behind Cleric stance is sound, but its clunky and honestly unnecessary. In stormblood you will be able to freely DPS without having to rely on cleric stance as a proxy.

Also if people don't want to DPS they can simply..not? You don't "have" to DPS if you don't want to. Just stand there and look pretty. Most people don't really have a problem with it.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

"If I wanted to DPS I would play DPS" is the most idiotic self entitled line I've ever seen in my life.

If it is within reason for you to do more than your bare minimum role, why not? It is not about covering the asses of others, but what more YOU could bring to the group.

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See that's how you start things. Is it illegal to just enjoy the game how you would like to? This game is not competitive outside of raid content, so your feelings of always doing your best seems a bit misplaced to me.

At the end of the day, no one can Make you DPS, the end!

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

"If I wanted to DPS I would play DPS" is the most idiotic self entitled line I've ever seen in my life.

If it is within reason for you to do more than your bare minimum role, why not? It is not about covering the asses of others, but what more YOU could bring to the group.

"It's not my problem, they should just do better so I can cruise along being a leech."

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So kick the other heal or have them play a DPS and just solo heal it, a 5th DPS is always better that a DPS healer.. Any day ^^, you can bring more to the the group by soloing healing so a 5th DPS can be there, they out DPS a healer hands down.

Update: My Husband solo heals a lot of endgame, he hates dpsing on healer, but will do it if there time and he won't get someone killed, he like to heal over dpsing. To him it more fun then just hitting a combo over and over again. Most of the time our 2nd healer will just pure DPS, or play there DPS job because there heals are not needed.

At the end of the day it up to each group and player to make it work, not everyone plays the same.. You can't make someone do it your way just because it works for you or that how you do it. there is no one way to clear something in FFXIV. You fine what work best for your group/team/party/FC and run with it.

Where's the guy with the Internet Hug tag? I feel like everyone in these threads needs a giant bear hug.....some with a chair, perhaps.....

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Originally Posted by Coatl

See that's how you start things. Is it illegal to just enjoy the game how you would like to? This game is not competitive outside of raid content, so your feelings of always doing your best seems a bit misplaced to me.

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It's because you're playing with other people, and more importantly in a team game. If I wanted to jerk off in a sandbox with no consequences, I should probably play a single player game. Probably GTA V or something I don't know.

It's just weird to not play to win. Especially when others are relying on you and their enjoyment of the game is also reliant on your performance.

So if I were to play soccer with my friends, I'd do my best to help them score a goal rather than just kick the ball in some random direction.

Healers should DPS when the situation is stable enough and/or calls for it. Simple enough. It is not about if your DPS is good or bad, if your tank is good and doing their job properly in mitigating damage then go into DPS mode while keeping an eye on the tank. The faster things die the faster the run goes and the more efficient you will be.

I will miss cleric stance dancing, while it was sometimes an issue where it would not report properly that it was off it did however basically state to the other healer, or anyone else who was paying attention to party buffs, that you were swapping into focusing on DPS. It was also in a way a nice mental gear shift, but I understand it is not that way for everyone.