MNK 4.0 Changes . . . I'm not a fan tbh

Bootshine is used every 12 seconds currently with a ~2 second global under GL3. That means you get 5 free crits every minute. At a 30% proc chance, that's worth 1.6 chakra a minute.
You use 5 non-guaranteed weaponskills in a 12 second period. With a 50% crit chance, you'll average 2.5 crits. That's an additional 12.5 crits per minute, or 3.75 chakra.
Adding it up, our base chakra generation through Deep Meditation is 5.15 chakra/minute, or 1.03 TFC a minute. With 30 weaponskills used during a minute, that makes Deep Meditation worth roughly 8.5 potency per weaponskill.

And thats with a such high unrealistic 50% critical chance, this is our new mechanic for what we were nerfed almost everywhere, aside for a 15 seconds 5% party buff...

What was the point of slowly buffing Monk over the past 2 years if it's just going to be nerfed damage wise? And for what?

Just get rid of Brotherhood for Axe Kick and take away our the slowness on Riddle Of Fire. Reduce PBs cooldown to make it a Bootshine crit fish skill for chakra. I'd rather 0 utility and great DPS with RNG funsies than lackluster, RNG dependent output being our only hope for DPS relevance.

Someone better at potency math than I should see, post buffs, how much more Potency a Sam has than the Monk. I feel like if it's 10% or higher, Monk... has no real value over Sam, since it's damage becomes so stupid it actually will make up for it's lack of utility. Not that I might I mind that. I'd just rather Monk be the same. Two sides of the huge DPS coin.

I'll cool my head tho. I, like everyone​ else, is getting more upset the more I think about how funky these change are. Let's all reserve final judgement for when the lvl 70 numbers and damage profiles come out. Who knows. We may yet still be Badass.

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Originally Posted by Blacktestament7

If Riddle of Earth was just going to give GL3, they could have saved time and effort and just made Axe Kick a PvE move instead of a PvP only move. Which is a far superior move than everything they came up with to give monks this xpac.

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It would have been better to give Monk an entirely new ability altogether and just reduce the Perfect Balance cool down to be in line with Blood of the Dragon and Enochian's. As it is it's a new button to solve a problem that should have been fixed by changing an older button.

And again, because I cannot emphasize this enough, this makes Tornado Kick even more situational, which runs against their supposed goal of trimming down on the unused buttons this expansion.

They make me want to not play my favorite job anymore.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

It would have been better to give Monk an entirely new ability altogether and just reduce the Perfect Balance cool down to be in line with Blood of the Dragon and Enochian's. As it is it's a new button to solve a problem that should have been fixed by changing an older button.

And again, because I cannot emphasize this enough, this makes Tornado Kick even more situational, which runs against their supposed goal of trimming down on the unused buttons this expansion.

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That was why I brought up Axe Kick because it makes TK alot less situational. It pretty much puts it in rotations since you can use it, expend GL, use AK and get GL3 back immediately. Axe Kick could even replace PB in the way to be put in line with BotD and Enochian. I don't think PB's cooldown is bad, it relates to other job buffs that governs damage poorly. GL is far eaiser to lose and harder to recover from than BotD. Don't know about Enochian, I'm not a fan of BLM and never have been.

All I want to know is why did they lower the cooldown of tornado kick to 10 seconds.

The monk changes feel half baked. Like there is a piece of the puzzle that we are missing. Lowered potencies losing ToD just lower damage in general. And theres no way we are going to get enough extra chakra to overcome those potency losses since we're relying on RNG behind an RNG.

I see no positive changes at all to the monk job. I only see negatives.

Even the utility they gave is a joke. Physical only over a short distance and only 5%

I'd love to be wrong. I love monk. I just don't see the benefits here.

I thought it would be cool if as soon as we hit 5 Chakra we get a short mini buff to either ourselves or to the party, then before the timer runs out just expend it on Purification or FC.

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Originally Posted by Bhearil

Bootshine is used every 12 seconds currently with a ~2 second global under GL3. That means you get 5 free crits every minute. At a 30% proc chance, that's worth 1.6 chakra a minute.
You use 5 non-guaranteed weaponskills in a 12 second period. With a 50% crit chance, you'll average 2.5 crits. That's an additional 12.5 crits per minute, or 3.75 chakra.
Adding it up, our base chakra generation through Deep Meditation is 5.15 chakra/minute, or 1.03 TFC a minute. With 30 weaponskills used during a minute, that makes Deep Meditation worth roughly 8.5 potency per weaponskill.

And thats with a such high unrealistic 50% critical chance, this is our new mechanic for what we were nerfed almost everywhere, aside for a 15 seconds 5% party buff...

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At a 1.88 rotation, you can slip in an extra Boot/True/Snap per Demolish while losing perfect-reapp potency only on DK and Twin, gaining 75 (minus natural crit margin) +40 + 100 WS potency. This satisfies the lowest modular for maximization of DK/Twin duration, making it ideal to for increasing the frequency of Bootshine in order to better fish for Deep Meditation procs through crits. It is not, however, the most efficient modular for Demolish (11.17 GCD per Demo), and will forgo two ticks per minute. As it would require a 1.75 to perfect Demo even with a perfectly continuous server poll, and the 100 potential potency of tick globals between Coeurl GCDs without Demolish applied falls short of the opportunity cost of a clipped Demolish (50-100 potency less than Snap Punch depending on the next global sync), this seems acceptable.

Some more maths, using a Deep Meditation-optimizing rotation.

At a crit rate of 30% (37.52% with IR factored in since at 1.88 GCD it affects 8 skills per minute or contributes .0752), the increased attack rate of 1.4 seconds per Demolish allows for:

an increased auto-crit worth 50 TFC by delaying DK from per 6 GCDs (.97 GCD or 2.1s DK/Twin clip) to per 9 (1.92s or 1.02 GCD gap, where tolerance barely treats this as a sub-single GCD gap, costing only one skill's bonus potency)

and, by delaying Demolish from per 9 GCDs (with .76 GCDs' clip) to per 12 (.83 GCDs' gap), an opportunity gain of 69+40 WS potency per 9 GCD (16.92s), 100 WS potency per 12 GCD (22.56s)—or 10.88 WS pps,

an additional 2 WS per 56.3s or cycle per 84.45s resulting in an additional 400 to 544 WS potency or 4.74 to 6.44 pps

and 1 more WS in IR window for an additional 24 to 63 Crit ppm or .4 to 1.05 pps

and a TFC potency bonus of 50 per 9 GCDs, and 15 per IR, * a 30% chance, or a total of 192(.3) 57.6 ppm or .96 pps

TOTAL of up to 21.57 pps gained

at an opportunity cost of 29 Bonus potency (DK to DK, Twin to Twin) per 9 GCDs and a tick cost of 50 per 40.66 seconds, or 2.28 pps
and relative potency loss from reduced Det/CR/DHR.

NET of 19.29 pps gained.

Appendix:
At a 30% crit rate (37.52 at 1.88 or 37.5 at 2.15 with IR included) increasing Bootshine cyclical usage by 50%, 33% in actual proportionate frequency, from 1 per 6 GCDs to 2 Bootshine per 9 GCDs, increases Deep Meditation ppWS contribution by only 7.24%.(?)

1/6 Auto-crit and 5/6 Natural: ((50 + 18.75*5) / 6)(.3) = 7.19 ppWS
2/9 Auto-crit and 7/9 Natural: ((50*2 + 18.76*7) / 9)(.3) = 7.71 ppWS

NOTE: Difference between the above suggested DM /WS potencies and these are due to the reduced crit chance, trading 50% for a more reasonable 30% (37.5% with IR factored in).

Conclusion: Especially given that we can no longer use finer plateaus by shaving modulars on stances via Fracture and Touch of Death, it'll be very difficult for Deep Meditation to make up for the base potency lost, even in a rotation that optimizes DM contribution.

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Originally Posted by Raionx

Relying on RNG behind an RNG.

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Please do consider that the new way to attain Chakra does not overwrite the old method, you can still get Chakra manually while disconnected via Meditation, so Chakra itself is not totally RNG dependent...
The part that is RNG dependent is just the passive method to collect them, which is something that the MNK was lacking in 3.x.

About the Potency drop, its not like I can say much, my guess is as good as any other person's atm.

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Originally Posted by alex4815162342

Maybe not determine good or bad, but things like parser or FFlogs will but completly random for MNK, maybe more than the other job !
I'm sure after the release, we'll see some saying "Job is great, I can hit FB 10 time in the fight", and other "Job sucks, I can hit FB only 3 or 4 time in the fight"
They said they want to reduce the gap between good and bad player, and RNG will not help !

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That's some reactionary bullshit right there, by that logic things like Bloodletter make bards dps completely RNG. Or saying WF Crits are what differentiate top MCHs.