Blue Mage Confirmed?

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Problem with learning outside of wuests is the almost 100% chance there will br players in your dungeon/raid who will be like "lol i didnt learn that one yet" and then be totally worthless.

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Dunno if this is RE: me, but my proposal was that they're learned within the quests. So, say you're level 30, you pick up a quest and at one point in the quest you're given the option of training on 3 different types of monsters all giving 3 unique spells. This would continue on to 70 and give you a unique job quest chain that allows you to pick and choose what you prefer at the time. Say you feel like you're lacking in AOE damage and one of the monsters gives an AOE spell, you go for that one as opposed to a single target spell or CC. That's a pretty basic example, but hopefully that gives you an idea.

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Problem with being customizable is there will be an optimal build and everything else will be crap. Look how "customizable" cross-class skills are, yet there are optimal choices. The best they could do is allow BLU to take on different role settings BLU-tank, BLU-dps, BLU-healer. Maybe different stances depending on which mob type's spells you use or something.

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This is a really common misconception, and it stems from XIV being so incredibly linear/vertical that there is literally only 1 BiS set of gear for each job and cross class not being varied enough to allow for actual customization. A really easy example, similar to the one I gave above, is say you're doing dungeons - clearly in this scenario you're going to value AOE damage over single target as the biggest time sink in dungeons is the time spent on trash. However, if you were doing a primal that didn't have a ton of add phases, you'd value single target more. There would be optimal choices for every encounter, sure, but there wouldn't be one universally applicable set of skills for every encounter especially with choices all the way up to 70.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

So you guys are ok with a butchered version of BLU so long as it makes it in?

We learn abilities three ways in this game: Innately after a certain level is reached; partaking in a class quest that upon completion, grants ONE additional ability; and through cross class assuming the ability has been learned from the respective class. So with BLU, you're either willing to accept this kind of progression for the class, or you are asking that this system change to fit BLU in to accommodate the lore surrounding the job.

Make no mistake, adding BLU to this game under the current system will be a totally different class with a 'blue mage' tag. Much like the afore mentioned SMN.

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First, the "this x1000" comment you quoted was in reply to a "they can easily" (i.e. 'are just as likely') "do this to" (this being "butcher") "BLU." Hardly seems like a "hey, as long as it's in there, I'm happy. *Wink*"

We learn abilities in three ways, thus far. Such systems can change or be added to in ways no consistent with that pattern at any time. There is no "the elbst was blue, therefore it must always be blue," in game design. Whatever reasons you might have for standardizing difficulty or complexity of skill acquisition go irrelevant with BLU being an expansion class/job. Unless that differentiates from the norm as well, you will need the minimum level to enter the expansion's content just to unlock the job. Even if you had to run a dungeon or fight a world boss for almost every ability at that point, it still wouldn't significantly affect balance, because there are always other jobs, which you would have already had to have leveled most of the way just to play this one. The job itself can be a sort of extravagance, if so desired. As long as a raider-to-be can hit level cap and have all his necessary skills before hardcore progression starts, there's really nothing to worry about. Beyond that, all systemic patterns of how you get there, precedent or upcoming, are irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

First, the "this x1000" comment you quoted was in reply to a "they can easily" (i.e. 'are just as likely') "do this to" (this being "butcher") "BLU." Hardly seems like a "hey, as long as it's in there, I'm happy. *Wink*"

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I'm aware of what I was quoting. I quoted the x1000 since he was agreeing with the other poster. However you want to look at it, it is in response to both of them. Not quite sure why this matters though?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

We learn abilities in three ways, thus far. Such systems can change or be added to in ways no consistent with that pattern at any time. There is no "the elbst was blue, therefore it must always be blue," in game design. Whatever reasons you might have for standardizing difficulty or complexity of skill acquisition go irrelevant with BLU being an expansion class/job. Unless that differentiates from the norm as well, you will need the minimum level to enter the expansion's content just to unlock the job. Even if you had to run a dungeon or fight a world boss for almost every ability at that point, it still wouldn't significantly affect balance, because there are always other jobs, which you would have already had to have leveled most of the way just to play this one. The job itself can be a sort of extravagance, if so desired. As long as a raider-to-be can hit level cap and have all his necessary skills before hardcore progression starts, there's really nothing to worry about. Beyond that, all systemic patterns of how you get there, precedent or upcoming, are irrelevant.

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It's not a matter of they can change. It is a matter that they have to change in order to accommodate the new class. From a player perspective, not everyone is comfortable with change. Some people like things exactly the way they are. From a dev perspective, this change brings challenges that they may, or may not be able to overcome. This is without mention of trying to keep the majority of the player base happy, which only adds to the difficulty.

I don't have reasons for standardizing skill acquisition. It's the status quo. I'm not the one who standardized it. So I don't even know what you're talking about. BLU being an expansion job WOULD differentiate from the norm if skill acquisition is altered in any way. Under the current system, the ONLY window BLU has to acquire monster absorbed skills is with class quests, and they would be solo instances just like everyone else's. Under the current system, BLU can't have any more abilities/passive traits than any other class, so you can already throw an extensive list of mob learned abilities out the window. You can't customize these attacks, because no such system currently exists. Can one be implemented? I can't answer that, but I would imagine it would be difficult.

As I've responded, I've continuously thought of ways to implement BLU, so I don't want anyone to think that there is a bias here. I've enjoyed playing BLU in other non-mmo FF games. Now, there might be something they can do similar to ACN's aetherflow passive trait. They might be able to give BLU (or it's starting class) a passive trait that allows the acquisition of certain mob abilities at certain levels. So instead of automatically getting this ability, you only automatically receive the requisite to acquire the ability. Successfully slaying the mob before this will grant you nothing. Afterwards, you must survive the skill and also slay the beast and the skill is yours. Again though, you won't have a choice of this skill, it is going to be predetermined based on the role this class plays. They can make it a branch class, with the player determining the route of DPS, Tank, or Healer when it is time to go BLU, and your mob skillset will be based off of this decision.

However, don't think that just because you say that the systemic patterns of skill acquisition are irrelevant makes it so. Unless of course you are willing to show me the programming code that gets around said systemic pattern.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Make no mistake, adding BLU to this game under the current system will be a totally different class with a 'blue mage' tag. Much like the afore mentioned SMN.

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Or like the

• BLM, just look at the "elemental wheel"
• DRK.. use HP to deal more damage or AoE damage?
• DRG... weren't JUMPs intended to DODGE attacks.. while in FF14 they are "used" to stay IN attacks?

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@Topic in general:

What I ask myself is: why is it ok, to change standard classes like Fighter/Berseker (Warrior), Ninja,Monk so that they have a dozillion skills, while they used to just have 1 attack and a few techs?

In Final Fantasy 6 Samurai had ONE ABILITY, Bushido which could be executed with 1-8 charges... a Ninja had ONE ABILITY, Throw (which can't work in this game at all... lol, "Sry guys, I have to farm some high lvl weapons for raid tonight so I deal much damage.").

So please... can this "this class can't fit into this game" please stop? So far they altered 12 of 12 Jobs of FF4/FF6/FF9/FF11/FFxx to make them fit FFXIV. Some more, some less.


And lore-reasons?! Lore is no problem, it's the gameplay of BLU which has to be changed. And they changed the gameplay of a lot of classes, so far, in every Final Fantasy game.

So far, all we know is 1) BLU interacts with Monsters to learn attacks 2) old FF titles don't have quests to aquire abilites at all, but FF14 has. Mash 1&2 and you have a FF14 BLU.

I would never say never when it comes to any ffxi job coming to ffxiv. IF they are wise we will see blu, bst,dnc, etc all eventually make their way into the game regardless of lolore.

Mind you it scares the heck out of me how they would design it. the team is obsessed with ensuring 0 mobility for jobs yet forcing moves every 5 seconds, very slow to react pets, animations>reaction , timers upon timers upon timers and slow combat ;;

But again...you never know. I would LOVE blu here IF done correctly, very much hope it appears one day :)

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Originally Posted by AutumnsHollow

The only class he did say he had no plans to add, and didn't even think about was puppetmaster.

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...but The Rising was all about Puppets....maybe a hint :p

i love see blu as tank mage Job myself but we have wait and see last years risen they hint on blue mage and red mage .samuria oh my.

Traditionally BLU learned their moves either from being hit by an attack, using a special attack on a monster, or from consuming special items, but I don't think any of those systems would work in our game. So I wonder if most pro-BLU players would like a combo with the FF Tactics Advance class Morpher. With that job you had a bank of monsters to draw abilities from and depending on the soul you equipped, you turned into that monster to perform single moves. So when you equipped the Lamia soul, you could use charm and petrify iirc, and when you equipped the Morbol soul you could use Bad Breath.

So I wonder if they could make BLU a fairly standard job, but upon getting the job you could equip (perhaps you got a box of monster soul crystals) a monster soul and that would give you three or four monster abilities. So say you equip a Morbol soul, it makes you immune to poison, lets you inflict poison, and generally gives you dot-based attacks. Or say you equip a Coeurl soul, you can inflict paralysis and use Blaster, or even a Dragon soul to give you cone-AoE attacks.

If the souls being offhand equipment ends up being too difficult to work with, maybe similar to AST cards, you can channel a monster's soul every three minutes. That way you still have a variety to work with, and the class can be balanced like a pet class since they would have so much variety. It's not exactly a traditional BLU but given how the job system works so far, it seems like a workable option to give players the chance to use enemy monster skills and still have a degree of customization and variety, which is what BLU really is about. Not sure if this will be a popular idea but after thinking about it, and how much I enjoyed playing with Quistis and Khimari and the Arcane Gunner in previous FFs, I think it sounds like a pretty fun middle ground between this game's system and traditional BLUs.

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

i love see blu as tank mage Job myself but we have wait and see last years risen they hint on blue mage and red mage .samuria oh my.

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Tank is the best fit for Blue Mage IMO... For starters, the Job lends itself well to a counter-based tanking style already... Beyond that though, Blue Magic can mostly be buffs, rather than some form of combo or Black Mage style spell casting... It also offers the most variety in utility IMO... OK, it'll never main heal as a tank, but it can still have White Wind for the same reasons Paladin has Clemency and Divine Veil... As a tank it'll likely have some form of stance or stances to toggle between enmity generation and pretending to be a DPS... Tank Blue Mage can have a bit of everything... So could DPS Blue Mage though, but in the same way Summoner has a bit of everything...

Wouldn't BLU learn abilities through job quest, leveling and perhaps the hunting log for lore reasons