tanks not using cooldowns?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I've been tanking since 2004. When did you start tanking in games?

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Great comeback xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKuS5_NZw30

/endsarcasm

There is no excuses not using your mitigation cd if you see ur hp drop pop a cd so the healer can heal ya and dps. Healer and tanks should try and i do mean try to maximize there mitgation cd proper usage and healing cds and dps output, it helps the raid/dungoen/trail/daily. If you can't try doing to dps or stance switch then please do main healing/tanking but even then you gotta maximize your mitigation cd usage and healing cd and dps output

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

They had less HP; I also have a ton of experience. ;) Less HP means you had to learn to use your cooldowns more because you had much less soaking and padding to take damage. My tank gained almost 7k more health; which means I don't have to use cool-downs as much anymore.

Strength tanks were much more skilled then vitality tanks in almost every aspect; since they "HAD" to use cool-downs to survive. I feel like the vitality change lowered the skillcap for tanks.

I've been tanking since 2004. When did you start tanking in games?

This is all pretty common sense stuff too...

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This is a great example of how the more "experience" you have the worse you can be sometimes. Tanking in other games involves all kinds of different mechanics, stat weights, reliance on healers vs reliance on cooldowns, etc.

and no, this is not common sense stuff. Common sense would've made decisions based on how this game worked with all the factors, and if you had common sense and did that you'd come to pretty much the opposite of everything in that post. Sure, in 2004 on whatever game you're intent on bragging about it may have mattered, but here it didn't.

Your post reminds me of all the STR bards I've seen levelling up.

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Originally Posted by Kazumac

Absolutely anticipation of known high damage times and if using a cooldown now means not having it then, save the cooldown. Absolutely agree.

There are so many tanks I see that just never use them. Saving them for a rainy day or something. Then when they hit 20% health it's like, here healer... There's all of my cooldowns. SAVE MEH! I think the cycling response is just a reaction to this "save for some unknown potentially sticky situation" mentality in some tanks. It is an effort to just get people used to using them.

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Typical bad tank that blows all of their cooldowns at 20%: "JESUS TANK THE WHEEL!"

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Strength tanks needed to use cooldowns a lot more then Vitality tanks.

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While tank with a lot of hp can survive longer, healer is healing for same amount of hp. if you start getting rekt for 2,5k auto-attacks each 3 sec, no matter how many HP you have, healer has to start healing immiedetely to make the healing even to dmg you recieve.

If you use cooldown, you will recieve only 1,8k auto-attacks each 3 sec, and healer don't have to pee their pants you won't get out of this alive, becuase he heals for more than you get on your chest.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

This is a great example of how the more "experience" you have the worse you can be sometimes. Tanking in other games involves all kinds of different mechanics, stat weights, reliance on healers vs reliance on cooldowns, etc.

and no, this is not common sense stuff. Common sense would've made decisions based on how this game worked with all the factors, and if you had common sense and did that you'd come to pretty much the opposite of everything in that post. Sure, in 2004 on whatever game you're intent on bragging about it may have mattered, but here it didn't.

Your post reminds me of all the STR bards I've seen levelling up.

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Uh.. well I am pretty sure every tank i've played in games have damage reduction temps similar to FFXIV. I mean its really really common; EVEN in Non-Linear Action MMOs warrior type classes have damage reduction moves. If you don't know that you haven't played much else.

Also; more health is a sponge; but less health makes you have to think about how much damage your tanking. That is common sense.

Don't see how you got bards mixed up with this; because that just sounds like stupidity to me.

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Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen

While tank with a lot of hp can survive longer, healer is healing for same amount of hp. if you start getting rekt for 2,5k auto-attacks each 3 sec, no matter how many HP you have, healer has to start healing immiedetely to make the healing even to dmg you recieve.

If you use cooldown, you will recieve only 1,8k auto-attacks each 3 sec, and healer don't have to pee their pants you won't get out of this alive, becuase he heals for more than you get on your chest.

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Of course; except when you have half the HP you had before you could actually see the spike and feel it a lot more. It made you have to worry about it more because if you didn't your dead. Now that you have a sponge you can see it; but you can also just not use it and get healed through it putting more stress on your healer.

After all; there wouldn't be a thread complaining about it otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

They had less HP; I also have a ton of experience. ;) Less HP means you had to learn to use your cooldowns more because you had much less soaking and padding to take damage. My tankgained almost 7k more health; which means I don't have to use cool-downs as much anymore.

Strength tanks were much more skilled then vitality tanks in almost every aspect; since they "HAD" to use cool-downs to survive. I feel like the vitality change lowered the skillcap for tanks.[/I][/B]

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There's a logic fallacy at work here but I can't put my finger on which one. Either way, while gimping your survivability to output max DPS through choice of gear was definitely proper play, it does not follow that it made STR tanks more skilled. Living dangerously kicked ass but it did not make me more skilled, or anybody else. There's also the fact that you're essentially the blessed fucking virgin when it comes to raiding or even midcore content, as you've so proudly proclaimed, so its obvious that you would not know that bosses hit like wet blankets last tier. Seriously, it was sad. There's nothing like tanking the A3S with the HP of an i170 fending tank.

This also explains why you believe cooldowns are no longer necessary, or less necessary. The change didn't lower the skillcap - it raised it. You still have to maximize DPS in all the ways you did before, shit doesn't hit like an empty bag of doritos, and now you have to pay more attention to enmity and stance dance more efficiently (though this is mostly thanks to content design and not any change to the tanks directly).

TLDR if you still think the VIT change made tanking current content proportionately easier, you're being willfully ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

Are you somehow trying to insinuate that tanks have less of a need to use CDs now that Strength tanking isn't a thing anymore? Because that's not true at all.

Are you suggesting that higher HP means you have more wiggle room and can be more conservative with your cooldowns? Because that's actually kinda true, though you're not really going to meet that kind of threshold unless you go back 2-3 patches or an expansion.

Are you suggesting that a more aggressive playstyle that involves stance dancing more frequently will require more heavy cooldown usage to compensate for the lack of passive damage reduction from the tank stance? Because that's also true.

But if you are in any way insinuating that tanks do not need to use cooldowns in combat, you are incorrect.

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He's still clinging desperately to a now-dated viewpoint about vit vs. str tanking that is officially a dinosaur and never applied to him in the first place because he hasn't participated in any content with anything resembling a tank-buster, and thinks all of that is e-peenery and elitism, but then he goes and tries to throw his non-existent weight around with misinformed and biased opinions.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Uh.. well I am pretty sure every tank i've played in games blah blah other MMOs blah blah

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Is it possible for you to discuss this game without referencing some other MMO?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Uh.. well I am pretty sure every tank i've played in games have damage reduction temps similar to FFXIV. I mean its really really common; EVEN in Non-Linear Action MMOs warrior type classes have damage reduction moves. If you don't know that you haven't played much else.

Also; more health is a sponge; but less health makes you have to think about how much damage your tanking. That is common sense.

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In this current patch, everything hits harder so the extra HP was granted through VIT. You can't compare tanking in 2004 to tanking in 2016...In FFXIV. There is more utility to tanking now than before. Maybe if you played the tank jobs in this game, you would have a more logical opinion that didn't revolve around outdated MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Kazumac

Not using damage reduction cooldowns regularly is probably why shit hits the fan when you tank.

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No, it's typically because "Sorry, I was in cleric stance."

Or literally not a single heal being cast because the healer is trying to win the DPS meters.

Your job as a healer is to keep everyone's HP high enough that they're not going to die. When your tank dies because you were DPSing, you're filling the wrong role, period. End of story.

In 4 mans, using vengeance at 98% HP while I'm getting healed and using vengeance at 10% HP while the healer is casting stone are WORLDS different. If you can't see why, you're a bad tank. Keeping cooldowns up with my usual healer, though, is different. Parry cooldowns can also stack with avoidance. At 10% HP, any self heals are WAY more important than they are at 90%.

Cooldowns aren't something you use "just because" they're for survival with bad healers, not so bad healers can win on dps.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Don't see how you got bards mixed up with this; because that just sounds like stupidity to me.

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At some point you're going to recognize it's because you just don't get it.

But, I'll spell this one out.

Ranged damage in previous MMOs and single player RPGs is often either partially or entirely STR-based.

So a player like you comes into this game, and rather than figure out how this game works, arrogantly goes "I've been playing archers since 2004, I know how to play em!" and runs STR accessories and just makes everyone around facepalm at their insistence that they know what they're talking about.

As far as "you must not have played a lot of games" I've been in MMOs since they were called MUDs. (but then of course we go back to the fact that experience in other games doesn't count because the rules aren't the same)