Patch 3.1 and the Problems with a Two Tier Model of Content

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Originally Posted by SerCypher

Ugh I made a giant post and it got deleted.

I don't want more savage content, I want more 'Hard' content. The problem Square is running into now is the problem other games have. There is a group of people who say 'WE WANT MORE RAIDS' and another group that goes "I like casual stuff". Then the game becomes segregated.

There needs to be middle content that is challenging for people, provides a sense of progression, and teaches people their class before they get into a raid and piss everyone off. Let's go back to 2.0, for example. Here is what the progression looked like.

-Hit 60

-Do Dungeons, learn class, get basic mechanics down

- Get the relic quest, do Hard Trials, learn new mechanics.

- Finish Relic, get pointed to Coil

- Do Coil and Ex Primals


The whole idea of -hard- content seems to have gone out the wayside in this expansion. There is only casual and extreme, and there is nothing to bridge the gap and provide a sense of progression for the average player. That's why you have anger about new players trying Savage, or Ex primals. These people really aren't skilled enough for those fights, but they want something more challenging then facerolling dungeons, and there is nowhere to learn now.

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There seems to be the assumption that the average player doesn't get a sense of progression from the way current content is now organized. Well, I don't know if I'm the average player but I get a sense of progression all the time, it's just not always related to gear. I'm excited whenever I get a new triple triad card or minion or complete a new achievement. I'm not against more "mid-core" content by any means. I just think that if the average player is anything like me, they feel that they progress more towards their goals by NOT doing raids than by doing them. I could spend a lot of time on Savage Alexander, not get too far, and miss out on grinding for other achievements, or I could work on those other achievements and catch up on raid content later on when it is more accessible. The latter is a more efficient use of time for me. Maybe others feel the same?

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Originally Posted by SerCypher

Crystal tower was a fight that required coordination between the groups and within the groups. It was a dungeon where every team had to do their role, and even one person screwing up would wipe a fight. Even still, people got through it, and had fun.

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I would say that's not entirely true. Every group could have one or two people dicking around, even on the one fight where it sort of matters (Atomos), since other party members could pick up their slack and cover for them.

most of the trouble can be described like this, you have two extreme, but nothing between it.

let me explain, casual or new player will barely touch the hard content, because they don't have time, yes that partially true, they don't have time to train with 7 other person 3-5 day a week.
however this type of player have the time to do content of smaller scale like dungeon at 4. what lack FF14 right now, it's a middle ground, a place where casual and new player can train, without recquire the dedication and time asked actually for be ready for face and beat challenge of hardcore content.

for make simple, we need midcore content that will serve as link between casual and hardcore. anyone can become a hardcore gamer, it don't recquire that much time actually. but it recquire a lot of experience. something that the community refuse to help to get. that them right and i can understand them view about this

i often say that the endgame need another type than raiding, i still think that offering a content challenging for 4-8-24 player is needed. not only raiding, it can be in any form, the goal is to offer a place for each to earn enough experience, for face any sort of challenge they want to beat. soo far, when player reach endgame content, they are directly pushed in raid of 8 player with a decent level of challenge without really give them the experience needed for know if they use well them jobs.

let's look alexander NM, if 1 person do shit, the other can cover for him, even 2 player can be covered by good player. do it's the best for them? clearly not. it don't help them. it don't show them how bad they do.

adding a content challenging for 4 player will put them in face of them own lacking capacity. it's clearly needed today to add this sort of content for allows the player to train and earn experience that some lack soo badly.

i will not say that the game need to free itself from the raid model, it's loved by a lot of people, but i do think it's time for MMORPG to evolve from this and add more different type of endgame content that are not raiding. how do that? i leave at each people to say it, i have already give my share of thought about this more than often. i can simply hope SE will give yoshida and it team the support they need for make the game evolve from the shadows of World of Warcraft for becoming a new model for the MMORPG that is soo badly needed!

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

Void ark has amazing examples of this; it's words

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Really? The poison room has one mechanic with visual and text prompting. Stand on the pad or get off the pad. If there are others, they must not be important because we didn't do them and we were fine.

Compare that to a fight like Behemoth, where you have everyone running around like crazy people, dropping rocks, killing adds, pushing buttons, trying to keep everyone alive from the floor, and dodging meteors. It felt like a minor accomplishment. None of the new easy stuff feels like that now :C

Not to mention they've gone back to nerf all the 2.0 duties that were even a little challenging (such as Garuda Story). It's all just face roll or incredibly challenging. So sad that they're killing what made the game good.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Overworld -> Diadem -> Dungeons -> Story Mode Trials -> Void Ark -> Normal Alexander -> Bismarck EX -> Ravana EX -> Thordan EX -> Nothing -> Savage Alexander

That "nothing" is what we're missing, Bismarck and Ravana aren't difficult fights, and can teach you the basics of more complex mechanics, and as you go down further it gets more difficult. But then all of a sudden you're hit with Savage and nothing in between that, that's what we're in need of.

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I would argue wholeheartedly that Thordan EX fills that "nothing" spot. I really believe SE listened to the player base and created this trial just for that neglected niche. Once could also even argue that it fills in quite nicely between A1/2S and A3/4S.

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Originally Posted by SerCypher

So sad that they're killing what made the game good.

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No, actually, they aren't killing what made the game good. The content they have given us just isnt what YOU want, and therefore it is really only killing the game for YOU.
You and this forum, likely represent a fraction of the actual playerbase. If this game is not doing it for you, then move on to the next or take a break and wait for the next patch.

SE has always reduced the difficulty of OLD content so that NEW players can catch up and get into end game faster. Its also not limited to SE or this game. Many developers do this to promote new growth. Otherwise the playerbase stagnates and we dont get new players subbing to keep things fresh and allow for more new content.

The thing is SE does not really care.

They are making their money. There are a lot of things in this game that are very amazing, but then there are those things that just leave you dazed and confused like WHAT?

Look how long it took them to finally give us a mount roulette that actually worked. At this rate it will take them a long time to realize what the player base is really asking for.

Savage is stupid hard. But its not hard because the mechanics are overly hard. Its only hard because of the enrage timers. Which honestly is sad, because to make the fight "easier" all they have to do is increase the enrage timer. Look at other MMOs, if people had an idea of what their rotation was we were still able to down things. In savage its more or less if you are a black mage and you mess up your rotation, it is very hard to recover. To me that is not an intriguing or interesting fight, to me its the sign of a lazy dev team who over tuned a fight then managed their over tuning with an enrage timer. I mean come on we pay good money for things to be interesting, I am all for an enrage timer of sorts, but not an instant wipe, perhaps giving the boss a new mechanic.

This way people who aren't exactly the best in the world can down the fight, without waiting until the 3 week of tome farming to get weapons to help them out.

Currently I am working on getting all classes to 60 so honestly, it really doesn't matter to me what they do, because I could care less if I raid. But once I hit 60 on everything I don't know what I am going to do with my account, because honestly I am tired of having to exclude people who are a little below my skill level that I consider friends just to progress in this game.

That is really all I have to say about it. All in ALL i am more than ok with HARD MECHANICS, but to slap an enrage timer on something is just a lazy way to call it hard.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

No, actually, they aren't killing what made the game good. Words. damn this character limit.

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The reason I liked leveling 1-50 was it was an extended tutorial. Players came out at 50 knowing how to play their class at least somewhat.

I am cool with the 2.1-2.5 Storyline quests being removed, for example, but nerfing something like copperbell mines or garuda story until it's not even challenging does a diservice to the new players. They were as hard as they needed to be so that people could learn their roles. I really think subscribers are going to start taking a dip. People like a challenge, and that content was just enough to give people a sense of accomplishment for beating it.

I could be wrong, but we shall see.

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Originally Posted by SerCypher

Really? The poison room has one mechanic with visual and text prompting. Stand on the pad or get off the pad. If there are others, they must not be important because we didn't do them and we were fine.

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Failure to grab orbs or letting the boss eat orbs will wipe the raid. Runs i've done so far have used dps lbs on it due to near wipes..

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Originally Posted by raela

Failure to grab orbs or letting the boss eat orbs will wipe the raid. Runs i've done so far have used dps lbs on it due to near wipes..

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Lol we just killed anything that moved and then it ended. Good to know I guess.