So, after the patch, how goes it with Paladin?

it is a 20% dmg increase ... don't know where that 20% str increase comes from.

Dunno where Maim and Darkside alleviate the tank stance penalty either, considering that you have them up while not in tanking stance too. The tanking stance is still a 30% damage loss compared to DPS stance for a WAR (Defiance + Deliverance loss), and a 20% damage loss as a DRK. PLD suffers more because of 20% damage loss + ~12% damage loss from the auto attack bonus in SwO. Maim and Darkside have nothing to do with all of this. It's not like unchained.

They alleviate the stance penalty compared to PLD I guess. Would be a different thing if we could have Swordoath active with shieldoath.

it would be too strong

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Bulwark gets you at most 2 procs every 3 minutes

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That plus the normal blocks, counting that the skill still has a CD.. for me it was enough.

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Originally Posted by Yonanja

They alleviate the stance penalty compared to PLD I guess. Would be a different thing if we could have Swordoath active with shieldoath.

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They don't alleviate anything, because you have them without the stance too. So your stance still reduces your damage by the same % compared to when you don't have it.

Got to play with it a little bit last night, and the changes...well, they don't really feel meaningful. The biggest thing I dislike is that now, Pacify is not in my control anymore. It's even more of an afterthought than it was before (and even before, it could be used to effectively "stun-lock" very specific mobs). And tanking bosses doesn't really feel any different. We're still mostly locked in our combos, and most of our mitigation still comes from Stoneskin and cooldown abilities.

It may help matters slightly where we'd had issues before (MT DPS on A3S and A4S), but I don't think this is a game-changer.

The change wasn't too big, but I do agree with some others that it is more fun now. Gives you more of a reason to time Sheltron a few before using it so you can get that shield swipe proc. Also it does help with enmity when the dps is really good, I don't need to RoH as much as before. All in all it was a positive change for now.

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Originally Posted by Yonanja

They alleviate the stance penalty compared to PLD I guess. Would be a different thing if we could have Swordoath active with shieldoath.

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They don't alleviate the penalty - paladin just takes a double penalty by losing sword oath damage. Dark loses Blood Weapon and WAR loses Fell Cleave/5% bonus, but neither are nearly as strong as Sword Oath.

The paladin changes are minor. I still run out of TP.

One downside is that the new shield swipe has less synergy with Bulwark and Sheltron. Bulwark should temporarily remove the CD for Shield Swipe and Sheltron should remove the current CD for Shield Swipe.

I liked being able to use combos that generated Shield Swipes and I feel like SE didn't really think through this change.