Yoshi P's Stance on Pld

The fact that they're waiting until 3.1 still has me curious. I'm wondering at the moment if they're not also making changes to all three tanks in some fashion (perhaps a broader system change like adjustments to Fending accessories?) and so they need more time to test the Paladin changes in relation to those other changes. It wouldn't do them any good to put in PLD changes now if they're planning more general tank changes in 3.1, since they would have to re-evaluate again at that time.

It was just a thought, and probably a pipe dream, though.

In regard to PLDs clearing at later gear levels--I'm really hoping the battle content team takes a different approach for future raid content. They seem to have set the bar for item level for Savage far too high--PLD may in fact seem fine to them if they're balancing AS4 around 210 or something. They should probably be tuning things at a lower expected item level than they are now.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

I'm surprised they aren't making adjustments prior to 3.1, since they've already adjusted several classes.

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They probably dont have a patch 3.08 or 3.09 scheduled/planed and cant justify a patch to do some adjustments to a job that really isnt broken. Paladin does have some minor balancing issues but still works extremely well in a lot of places. AST did not work well for anything.

dps checks on Savage are big yes we all know this. But I don't know about the people complaining about the lack of PLD dps but when I examine 90% of the Paladins on my server some of which are actively arguing and calling for changes in shouts in idleshire they are all rocking the vit accessories. Pretty sure they aren't sword oathing at all either when they can. Part of he problem with tank dps is a lot of the tanks I see don't play as aggressive as they can and then say how broken the job is. Any OT warrior I see is rocking full melded 150 accessories with a few 210s thrown in the mix. I'm not saying you guys here are doing that in any way but from what I see on my sever the people complaining about the dps issue are the ones going VIT spec.

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Originally Posted by MrTherm

They probably dont have a patch 3.08 or 3.09 scheduled/planed and cant justify a patch to do some adjustments to a job that really isnt broken. Paladin does have some minor balancing issues but still works extremely well in a lot of places. AST did not work well for anything.

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Actually AST got through the new primals, roulette, and Alexander normal just fine, which are the only other "places". It fell flat on it's face the same place PLD did, savage.

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Originally Posted by Seku

Inability to clear content until weeks later where everyone is already geared up to off set the lack of natural ability the job has is just as bad, as from I am reading, that's what merited changes to WAR, the inability to clear endgame raids on a consistent basis until everyone else was geared up if at all.. It has nothing to do with competition at this point, but just the ability to actually clear something w/o holding your group back for weeks to months and being pigeon holed into another class that you don't like.

Honestly, no matter what they do to PLD, as long as PLD doesn't get any higher mitigation through additional traits for natural defense or cool downs, higher DPS to match WAR and DRK, some crazy utility that raid comps can't live w/o, or SE produce fights that revolve around consistent heavy damage to take advantage of our shield which would be bad game design as it would be the same as taking advantage of parry, WAR/DRK is going to win due to the higher damage output.

You can have too much DEF and Curing. That limit has always been if you can live through the strongest attack and a hit or two after, you're good. Any more DEF or Curing after that is a waste. All tanks can live through predictable tank busters. If PLD mitigation for physical attacks were that great, a lot of groups would have started reincorporating them back in A3, where physical damage was present and consistent enough. They haven't.

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Nothing you said is wrong, but I would appreciate if you quote the entirety of a sentence. They exist for a reason and you skipped out the part that pretty much summarises something very similar to what you are trying to say without going into the same level of detail. The only difference is I am discussing the causes and you are discussing the symptoms.

Blood tanking vs mitigation was a single crippling flaw in an otherwise strong class, wheras PLDs problem is it is poor across single target and aoe dps, support, single target and aoe emnity, mitigation sustainability and more. It is many things, not just one big one that screams at you.

That said, all of the issues can be addressed more simply though, by changing numbers such as cooldowns and cast times, or moving abilities on and off of GCD, rather than fundamentally re-purposing what they do as SE did with inner beast, vengance and storms path.

Competition is always important because balance is relative. WAR and DRK are providing the benchmark for PLD to reach, and it doesn't. If there wasn't that benchmark where would PLD be?

Also at no point did I say it didn't need changes, which you seem to be under the impression of. I have proposed more (viable) changes than most.

Also, given that shields are something in the region of 3-6% (depending on iLv, currently at about 4% I believe, less for towers which we will want for shelltron and physical busters) and out of shelltron, RNG long term mitigation on physical damage, there is no way of tailoring fights to make Shields a significant component, shield blocking is just too weak and to make it a true advantage would require a major buff. Given that shield is so minor, fights with frequent high damage bursts, i.e., absolutely unclearable without frequent mitigation cooldowns will make Inner Beast king and leave PLD and DRK on the sidelines because eventually their cooldowns run out, and especially PLD's garunteed cooldowns run out fast.

To all the people bringing up warrior salt in 2.0: I'm not talking about the state War was in at launch. I'm talking about AFTER the fixes. It's like a game of telephone spiraling further and further from what was originally said. Anima further discussed it directly after my post.

IMO its not the PLD that is broken, its the unbalanced content that needs adjustments. Setting a skill level measured only on enrage timers and magical damage tank busters is bad content design, not bad PLD skill design..

That being said I think PLD could welcome a small DPS Buff indeed. But not as much as the content needs fixing. I team up with a PLD in my static and yeah it sucks when the DPS checks arent met, but I fully understand him saying "No i won't change my main to WAR just because the designers went over the top with their enrage timer checks..

Also, a tank shouldn't have to meld his crafted accessoires to beat the content (I did but I can fully understand those who wont), whats the fending accessoires in the game for then? Bad bad design flaw imo.

I'm not saying you have to meld nor am I forcing or telling people to do so by any means. But the development team stated before savage even came out it is going to be hard and gear checks will need to be met so that I couldn't realistically be beaten in a week like FCoB was. Melded accessories give you roughly 150ish extra strength that you otherwise wouldn't have, which is why world first groups do this form of stat. All I'm trying to say is the dps checks are high on purpose so you really shouldn't say a job is bad because it needs high level gear by design that's how it was created.

Pally changes will be nice. I doubt it will be any fundamental changes to their design.

I lol every time I see someone imply "the sooner everyone agrees with my opinion on what is wrong, the sooner pally will get more raid utility"

I'm just over here like... Yeahhhhhh okay bud. Lol

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Originally Posted by NFaelivrin

Yoshi did also insist for months before 2.1 that WAR was fine and people didn't know how to play it,.

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Yoshi P stay on his stubborn status when it comes to admitting something is messed up or clunky

#WeToldHimSo