Idea: Split Archer into Bard and Ranger

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Actually, yes I do. Unless it completely changes your role, you're still doing to be using the same archer skills to dps and it will not deviate far from how bard plays. The two classes will never compete for a dps slot with each other because BRD/MCH are considered the "support-dps" in group comp and are the only two classes who can do such. 10 skills will not change how a class plays, only add onto it.

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You are wrong Rice. Lets take the 2 melee classes with the combo system: Rogue and Lancer. Without the jobs skills these classes plays pretty much the same, you know that, do you? So, jobs skills are what make you change how you play a class. going forward they will only add jobs skills, this means that branching jobs will be even more viable.
Ps: for me the ranger, as a physical dps, could even take second melee spot in a party composition

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Originally Posted by Noelzzz

You are wrong Rice. Lets take the 2 melee classes with the combo system: Rogue and Lancer. Without the jobs skills these classes plays pretty much the same, you know that, do you? So, jobs skills are what make you change how you play a class. going forward they will only add jobs skills, this means that branching jobs will be even more viable.

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They don't play the same. Lancer is still designed around positional attacks while Rogues ignore it entirely. Rogues also have sneak attack/trick attack and Jugulate's utility, whereas Lancer's only utility is Leg Sweep. Having combos doesn't make classes similar to one another. Neither does filling the same role.

In all honesty, the OP reeks of how SE handled Red Mages in FFXI.

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Problem: Red Mages weren't happy that their job was a refresh bot
Action taken: Players gave suggestions to fix Red Mage by making melee more attractive/viable in group settings
Response from SE: Instead of fixing the job, take the suggestions made by the players and give Red Mages the middle finger by implementing their suggestions to create Blue Mage, Dancer and (to an extent) Rune Fencer.

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Again, sweeping the problem under the rug.

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Problem: Bard players aren't happy their job was turned into bow-mage
Action taken: Discussions on implementation and general unhappiness of people who played BRD since ARR
Response from SE (according to the OP): Instead of fixing the job, give BRD players the middle finger by making a new job for them to level.

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Our of all options available, this would be the worst thing SE could do.

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Originally Posted by Noelzzz

You are wrong Rice. Lets take the 2 melee classes with the combo system: Rogue and Lancer. Without the jobs skills these classes plays pretty much the same, you know that, do you? So, jobs skills are what make you change how you play a class. going forward they will only add jobs skills, this means that branching jobs will be even more viable.
Ps: for me the ranger, as a physical dps, could even take second melee spot in a party composition

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Rogue maintains no buffs. Lancers use short cooldowns to boost strong, single hitting abilities and have to maintain a buff which interrupts their current combo. Next thing you're gonna say is that marauder and gladiator both tank differently.

the only way i see this happening is if SE makes parties into 5-people per group. 1 healer, 1 tank, 2 dps, 1 support

until otherwise stated bard is a dps class and will always be a dps class. they would have to gut bard and take all their abilities away and change them into FFXI bards in order to make a ranger class.

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Originally Posted by Xerius

Greetings all,

So, I know there's been a lot of complaints about Bard and how they've broken the job, not in terms of how good it is, but how it feels to play. I've been trying to think of a solution because Wanderer's Minuet isn't going anywhere, so I thought, maybe they could split the job into 2 different jobs: Ranger and Bard. Bard would stay exactly how it is but Ranger would lose the ability to sing songs and gain mobility and dps.

Let me know what you guys think. :D

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Agreed 9001%. Bard needs to be a bard, not a bowmage, not rangerwitaharp, but a bard.

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Originally Posted by Shunye

the only way i see this happening is if SE makes parties into 5-people per group. 1 healer, 1 tank, 2 dps, 1 support

until otherwise stated bard is a dps class and will always be a dps class. they would have to gut bard and take all their abilities away and change them into FFXI bards in order to make a ranger class.

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Would be best change ever.

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Originally Posted by Shunye

the only way i see this happening is if SE makes parties into 5-people per group. 1 healer, 1 tank, 2 dps, 1 support

until otherwise stated bard is a dps class and will always be a dps class. they would have to gut bard and take all their abilities away and change them into FFXI bards in order to make a ranger class.

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Great, now que time would take even longer lol
On a serious note, it would require them to redesign every single dungeon, there's no need for support whatsoever in any of the current ones. In fact outside of the old WP speed run in Philo days (which wont happen again because SE hates speed runs with a burning passion for some reason), I dont remember ever using Ballad or Paeon for any dungeon ever. (Or even foes, somehow leveling Bard from 50-60 I never encountered a single caster in dungeons )
It would really make more sense to make full party duties 9 men and have a support slot.

Ranger will have the same stigma as bard. Be a ranged physical class.

The point is balance. If you introduce a job like bard 2.0 without the nerf in WD, what is the reason to bring a melee job who has to do positionals, avoid aoe and unable to attack the boss? Now Melee jobs as Nin and DRG have "support" abilities.

A ranged class has more mobility and i don't see bards have any problem on this. I accept you don't like bard now but don't be selfish and try to change a new useful mechanic to let bards do the same damage than others dps. Adapt or move on.

The concept of Thief and Ranger technically exist apart from Ninja and Bard. Look at the Moogles in the King Moggle Mog trial, there is a Bard AND a Ranger (there's also a dedicated Thief which uses a single dagger).

What exactly would a Thief bring that's not already covered by Rogue/Ninja?