My problems with AST buffs.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Saying "In 3.05, it was viable to use AST in Alexander Savage" is accurate. You not understanding the definition of the word doesn't make it any more or less true.

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"Viable" in an MMO doesn't mean "it's within the realm of possibility to use this class in an encounter".

It's technically "viable" to run savage with an entire player down, if the rest of the group is insanely-well geared, but you wouldn't do that because it'd be idiocy to not fill up all of the raid slots.

No, "viable" means they compete for raid spots with the other classes of that type, which AST certainly did NOT.

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Originally Posted by ChocoChick

As someone who has AST on the side, it's clear that SE did in fact changed their unique identity with the buffs. Of course no one is complaining that the buffs were weak but by changing some of the skills mechanics and not just the numbers, you change what was unique of AST.

The changes most have in question are:

Collective Unconscious now gives 10% dmg reduction and a regen buff that refreshes once inside. This poses a few problems. Firstly by giving both the effects of diurnal and nocturnal, you now lessen the amount of decisions a player has to make. Decisions makes interesting gameplay in my opinion as you actually have to think about things. Now I have to care less about what stance I choose at the beginning of the fight.

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CU is a 58 spell, it should be powerful. the fact that the nocturnal version was a lot worse then the sch bubble was insane on itself.
Maybe the regen is a bit much now but it was utter shit in it's previous state.

Disable i agree on tough, it was fun timing it right before a big attack rather the now when i dropp it near one.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

"Viable" in an MMO doesn't mean "it's within the realm of possibility to use this class in an encounter".

It's technically "viable" to run savage with an entire player down, if the rest of the group is insanely-well geared, but you wouldn't do that because it'd be idiocy to not fill up all of the raid slots.

No, "viable" means they compete for raid spots with the other classes of that type, which AST certainly did NOT.

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Viable means feasible. At the end of the day though, you would run it with 7 people if it was viable/feasible and there was something in play that made it worth the effort.

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Originally Posted by Assirra

CU is a 58 spell, it should be powerful. the fact that the nocturnal version was a lot worse then the sch bubble was insane on itself.
Maybe the regen is a bit much now but it was utter shit in it's previous state.
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Dissipation is 60 and its crap , ET is 58 and is also bad, now proceed to tell me how "overpowered" scholar is and how balanced and fair those buffs to astrologian were.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Viable means feasible. At the end of the day though, you would run it with 7 people if it was viable/feasible and there was something in play that made it worth the effort.

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Hello hello?

Is the plate stuck? I keep hearing the same nonsense over and over instead of actually arguing about the topic.

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

Dissipation is 60 and its crap , ET is 58 and is also bad, now proceed to tell me how "overpowered" scholar is and how balanced and fair those buffs to astrologian were.

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So because 1 thing is crap the other to be crap? I never used the word overpowered btw so keep your hands out of mouth or next time i bite your hand off.
Anyway, i hope they fix those spells in the long run. Astrologian simply had priority due the dire state they were in.

Anyway this is my last post here because these arguments have now turned very childish it seems.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

I have no issue with Astrologian being a viable healer. I have issues with them having carbon copies of abilities that are straight up better than the original classes.

If SE find it so impossible to balance jobs without homogenizing everything into the ground then perhaps we should only have 4 jobs : Tank, Healer, Ranged Dps, Melee Dps. No need for anything else.

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That's one of the biggest downsides to being of the holy trinity when it comes to composition. It is literally and realistically impossible to be of 100% play equality and still be so radically different between each other for everything. How do you propose AST be viable in healer output without buffing their heals? I'm assuming that's what you're attacking when it comes to the homogenized argument. Do you think it should be based on cards? Cards are RNG related, so they would never be viable for anything remotely challenging. If RNG were removed and cards could heal on command, doesn't that just make them the homogenized healer again?

I mean, you people complain about AST not being unique in this game, but... what's actually unique between the other classes/jobs? The skill/spell animation? The way you'd use a said skill? Maybe that's it. Maybe it's the fact that a skill for DRG lets them jump into the air and look cool. This skill functions different from anything a MNK can do, so that equates unique! They use a graphically different weapon and animation when attacking. Unique gameplay at its finest! Totally not a carbon copy function and method between other melee jobs. Just because DRG auto-attacks, doesn't mean it does the same thing as any other auto-attack, so it's totally unique in every way possible! Thus, these points mean unique job.

That's essentially what it seems to perceive as when people complain about uniqueness lacking in a game where the holy trinity is the word of a god. The way that AST is different and similar to the other healers (now), is identical to the way melee jobs are different and similar to each other. Different looks, different potencies (though perhaps similar results), different unique functionality of skills/spells, etc. If you have a problem with the uniqueness that AST has now, be it because of a perceived lack of, then you should have a problem with practically every job within their roles.

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

Dissipation is 60 and its crap , ET is 58 and is also bad, now proceed to tell me how "overpowered" scholar is and how balanced and fair those buffs to astrologian were.

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ET is bad?
How are you using it?
Honestly...

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Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries

Cool but i got a static , only my clas individuality feels threatened and i played many many many mmorgps and class individuality is very important in an mmo, classes need to be different not rebranded and recycled skills.

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There are three kinds of healing in MMO's. We are talking HEALING, because thats your job. Bubbles, Hots, and direct heals. We could also go as far as to say "stacked healing", but thats not really a thing in FFXIV.

SCH and WHM bring...3/3 of those things. SE had no intentions of making AST when the game launched, and it's evident. WHM and SCH simply have "all" the tools. Any new class that is released, will inevitably feel like one or the other.

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Originally Posted by Muahbec

ET is bad?
How are you using it?
Honestly...

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If you run your aery or whatever content you are running sure ET is useable, otherwise is just a waste , you will either a)overheal b)make your whm partner overheal / make their medica 2 ticks overheal, after raidwide dmg in this game there is a big pause before the next, if you use ET succor AFTER the raid dmg it will only make medica 2 ticks go to waste. You are far better off with a shield that cannot overheal and will stay on the target regardless if they are at 1k hp or full. There 0 reason to use ET , if you use it on adlo , god forbits it crits because 50-60% of that is just a huge overheal.

At the end of the day you are better off with the shield by far, or oh when you are duty finding some casual content and you get another sch as your partner which is irrelevant if you have a static.