I mentioned stats that they aren't forth coming with. Tooltips are one thing, but not knowing precisely how your stats effect your character is simply terrible. These buffs can be easily identified just given enough plot points to find out what their calculations are. Nothing complex about it, unless you're just a complete idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
What you're suggesting with a porcupine effect is literally giving a tank an incentive to take more damage. There is no amount of damage you should willingly take at the expense of any strain on your healers. It's like one of those idiots who drops out of their tank stances because they think they can out dps a healer in cleric. Stupidity runs rampant in this game's community, as you have made quite obvious.
These buffs are much more interesting than anything either you or numb skull with the "Shield Oath that drains MP" idea has suggested. These kinds of buffs actually change and adapt to every single situation, gaining effectiveness in high damage heated situations where it's needed and losing it in the simple low damage situations where it isn't as necessary.
A new tank stance to fit Dark Knight better
Printable View
-
07-03-2015, 10:12 AMCeodore
-
07-03-2015, 10:30 AMReynhartThat's why I askd you for a skill tooltip like the ones in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceodore
I shouldn't have to test how my main skill works. Besides, since I have no idea of what I shoud have been hit for, finding the formula is far more complex than you might think.
Except I also made obvious that good tanks know when they can afford to remove their tank stance, thus taking more damage. Stance Dancing is a real thing, even if it's an "advanced technique" that not everyone can use right away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceodore
Again, I don't think so. If you can't play with it, it's not interesting. It's basically like a trait. It's like saying "Wow I just got Enhanced Sentinel, my skill is much more complex"..."No, you still pop it and move on"Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceodore
It's the player that needs to adapt, not the skill.
I'll try to make an analogy with BLM.
Suppose you have only one element and suppose you have a trait that automatically gives you Umbral Ice when you have 10% or less MP and automatically gives you Astral Fire when you have 90% or more MP. And that these traits remain until they are replaced by the other. You'd only have to cast you single spell constantly and your buff will dynamically change your casting times, MP cost and MP regen. You have it, your dynamic and complex buff. But, when playing, you'll just mindlessy spam the same spell since you have absolutely nothing to manage directly this buff. -
07-03-2015, 11:05 AMCeodore
Okay, if that's how you view it, then it's pretty sad. But what you are talking about isn't complexity or originality, it's utility. Yes, a porcupine effect DOES have more utility, but ultimately, for a tanking effect, it's not original at all. It's been done, many times, and even in this game with Vengeance. Complexity refers to how a skill works. What is its effects? Does it just do one thing? Two things? Three? Or does it continually evolve and change depending on the situation? Does it have a stronger potency when there is more damage, and less when there is less damage? Does it evolve? THAT is complexity. Originality refers to how common is the skill. Has it already been seen before like the porcupine effect, or is it something unique to the game like a shield based on damage taken from the previous hit?
What you are talking about isn't complex or original. It's flat and has already been seen in this game. Further, I know what stance dancing is. I heal as a Scholar, and use it. I was doing it back when Paladin was the only class with an off tanking stance, and still do it now that Warrior does. There is a huge difference between stance dancing, and just dropping your tank buff while you're the main tank. The former is intelligent, the latter is stupidity. Don't perceive to educate me. I know what it is, but I didn't mention stance dancing did I? I never said stance dancing was dumb. But I suppose that is my fault for not clarifying. Allow me to do so. Tanks that drop out of their tank stances while main tanking are idiots. -
07-03-2015, 11:36 AMKaedan94
I think the OP means that you would not only mitigate 20%, but also reflect the 20% reduced portion back. Not that you would take the full damage and reflect back 20%.
I may be wrong, but the first idea is good, though would require a reduction in potency, as mentioned. If he does mean the second interpretation, then no, that's a bad idea. -
07-03-2015, 11:39 AMCeodoreBut the whole concept of the porcupine effect has already been done in the game. But yes, SHOULD this be the case, as Square has shown quite a lack in originality already, a potency modifier would be needed instead of a % modifier, and further, specification on whether it triggers with magic DPS or not needs specified, as most effects like this only trigger from physical damage and would ultimately limit its uses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaedan94
-
07-03-2015, 11:47 AMFinalWolf
1. Take the parry requirement off reprisal make it a off GCD
2. Take the increased enmity off dark arts powerslash and replace it with a slashing debuff
3.Grit should increase parry by 30%
4. DA+soul eater should also absorb TP from monsters
5. Carve and spit should give you about 10% more mp
And finally shadow wall. Fine make it weaker than sentinel but why is it on a 180 second CD? reduce it to 90 seconds. -
07-03-2015, 12:09 PMNektulos-Tuor
Dark Knights need more damage to compete with other tanks. That is why I wanted a unique Tank Stance to them that didn't reduce damage.
-
07-03-2015, 01:13 PMKiteless
Or you could just take what they already have and remove or reduce the damage reduction...
-
07-03-2015, 03:45 PMReynhartYes, you'd take the full damage, reflect 20%, and be healed for the damage you just reflected. Which, apart from one-shotted attack (which everybody seems to see everywhere for some reason...) has the same effect on your eHP that taking only 80% damage or having 25% more HP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaedan94
No, it add depth to what the player can do. Your skill is not in the hand of the player, it's not part a gameplay, it doesn't offer choices. It's complexity from a programmer point of view, but it's just automated. You just made a complex rule, you didn't offer more thinking and more strategy to the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceodore
I'm not trying to educate you, I'm trying to stop all this "You're promoting deliberate damage". Its as stupid as "Oh, the housing is costly, it promotes RMT....". And dropping you tank buff is far from stupidity. If you think so, you obviously have something else to learn about tanking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceodore
There, look at how the WAR is "stupid" to be out of its tank stance while tanking... -
07-03-2015, 03:55 PMNektulos-Tuor
Grit
Reduces damage taken by 20%
Increases enmity gain.
Penalty: Slowly reduces MP, TP, or HP.
Darkside
Constantly pulsates unaspected damage around you. The damage is increased if you kill an enemy.
75 unaspected damage every 2.5 seconds.
If killed an enemy: 150 unaspected damage every 2.5 seconds for 10 seconds.
Penalty: Further reduces MP, TP, or HP.
Dark Dance, Blood Price, Blood Weapon, Dark Mind, Shadowskin, Reprisal, Shadow Wall changed to heal MP, TP, or HP or assist with the changes.
Then, other skills can be modified to counter that reduction. Or give the Dark Knight more ways to generate that penalty whilst in Grit.
Meh, scrap that idea. Too overpowered at low levels. Also we have salted earth.
I still really like the 15% damage reduction with no penalty and slowly draining MP. However having the buffs regain MP as well.
Reflecting 20% damage back is mitigating it though.