Why can't we have jobs with this level of depth and customization in FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I invite you to quote the part of any of these posts that was "disrespectful". You may not like what I have to say, and the truth sometimes hurts, but that doesn't make my posts "disrespectful".

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Where in my post did I call anyone lazy? I said they don't get a free pass to slack off just because some folks think sticking a new title on a game resets the clock. If anything, now is the time to work even harder. A major MMO has an expansion looming. Other major mmos are also gaining traction, and now is a critical time for SE to prove why XIV should get all those dollars. You like things the way they are? FANTASTIC. Congratulations, even.

I tend to take the long view of things, and without criticism and developers that actually listen to it, we have disasters like 1.0 was. You may not remember it. It sure sounds like you weren't around for it...

I invite you to quote the part of any of these posts that was "disrespectful". You may not like what I have to say, and the truth sometimes hurts, but that doesn't make my posts "disrespectful".

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Did I do it right?

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Originally Posted by Triston

Did I do it right?

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Wut. /10char

because um.. ps3 limitations?
am I doing it right?

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I've been hearing things, a LOT of things, about XI and the changes and let me tell you... The temptation is strong. It's really strong to give it another go and explore all the new things they have added.

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Let me save you some time by saying that FFXI has been improved immensely within the past one year alone. Updates every months that changed the game in the direction of FF14 and adding tons of improvement to be more in par with this game. The new team did beyond amazing job to modernize the game. If you plan to come back, now is a very good time, and they have FREE login next week for a week to welcome people back. You will not recognize the game, gone are the really bad design decision of the reviled Tanaka group, and in with more fresh new direction with FF14 flavor everywhere.

FFXI is definitely a more complex game. Has myriad of jobs and options. With one BIG HUGE glaring flaws, the old team cannot balance the jobs properly, and the new team is struggling very hard to improve all the "forgotten" jobs such as Dragoon, Summoner, Beastmaster, Red Mage, Ninja, Dark Knight, Thief, and yes, like the OP mentioned, Puppetmaster. All these "exciting jobs" you want to add in FF14 are considered trash useless jobs in FFXI. Endgame in FFXI is pretty much boiled down to Paladin, White Mage, Scholar, Monk, Samurai, Ranger, Bard, and Corsair. Both new jobs such as Rune Fencer and Geomancer are deemed a waste of party slot, useless, and just not as useful as the Bard, White Mage, Monk, Samurai, Ranger set up.

Trust me, if FF14 ends up like FFXI, you can bet half of the jobs here will be rendered useless, not wanted, trash, big waste of everyone's time. The amount of toxic bile in this forum will be overwhelming when people start complaining that so and so leave duty finder when they see their party set up full of "trash jobs" that will be considered slowing down the run.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

If anything, now is the time to work even harder. A major MMO has an expansion looming. Other major mmos are also gaining traction, and now is a critical time for SE to prove why XIV should get all those dollars.

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A little off topic but I just have to mention that attempting to compete head to head with the top dog in any industry is always a horrible business decision. You don't fight the competition when they are ramping to their peak but when they enter the lull. Why release an expansion along side theirs when you can do it once their playerbase has nothing more to look forward to.

I fail to see why this would be the time for SE to try to make a big push for getting content out. If anything, they have more then enough time to fully plan out some really nice things to come.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Sadly, I do fear you're right. I really love FFXIV for a lot of things but the minimalism everywhere isn't one of them. However, I don't think it's necessarily as contradictory as you think. I think both audiences can reasonably be served. Even XI had its simple and straightforward jobs.

But that is why I wanted to open this discussion. If SE feels there's an audience to be served, and that they can do it without breaking their carefully designed setup... maybe, just maybe, we'll see something. I do think it's worthwhile to open these threads and have these discussions, even if SE eventually comes back with a firm "no." I'm sorry if you feel it's a waste of time.

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A small note, I gave a more personalized reply in a previous edit, if you care to read it.

It's not so much of a waste of time as a bad utilization of intent. There is a certain bounds we have to realize we can work within, and move on from there. In this case I would say keep in mind, with the complexity you desire, we are still dealing with a large number of players who play primarily on a gamepad. I count myself among them. If we were to design complexity, we have to keep it at least simple enough, so that they can properly utilize it.

I fear that people are so consumed with thinking outside the box, that they're leaving the very stadium of thought that the game was designed within. If we were to make our adjustments more gradual or streamlined, suggestions would have a much higher chance of being heard and replied to, and then the depth, or at least a fair compromise of said desired depth, could be reached in a different, but still satisfactory manner.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Let me save you some time by saying that FFXI has been improved immensely within the past one year alone. Updates every months that changed the game in the direction of FF14 and adding tons of improvement to be more in par with this game. The new team did beyond amazing job to modernize the game. If you plan to come back, now is a very good time, and they have FREE login next week for a week to welcome people back. You will not recognize the game, gone are the really bad design decision of the reviled Tanaka group, and in with more fresh new direction with FF14 flavor everywhere.

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And someone just before you said it's the worst thing since Abyssea. It's amazing how polarized folks can be about these two games. The big barrier ended up being the game client. I may give it another go next week, but the thing I remember most about finally giving up on trying to make it work was opening XIV and launching without any additional effort on my end. Still, threads like this do make it intriguing, and anyone who played during the glory days still gets that XI "itch" every now and again...

Thanks for the response!

Puppet master is still one of the most under performing jobs in 11. Even with all that "customization" you could do. There wasn't any. People won't yell at you in endgame in 11 for doing what you want with your auto, they would tell you No! And spread it across the entire server that you don't know your job. Then you never end being allowed to ever do endgame. If you haven't played 11, then don't talk about a job on it like you have. Also the Lore in 14 is 1000th better then the lore in 11. While the storyline in 11 was great the world's lore was non existence until WotG expansion. 14 has much better storyline and more then 11, and it's only 1 yr old. 11 is going on 11+yrs now. While it looks like you can customize an auto you had 1 set up that was required and costed millions of Gil to assemble. If you tried to customize it your own way, your auto would underpreform. It Was A cool job but 11 was all about the illusion of custimization. Without having any. I played 11 from launch until shortly after the last expansion, I tried to go back and it was awful. I tried playong again about 6 months ago, They haven't fixed anything as far as job balance. They made the game easier to play for sure. Drk and Sam the 2 strongest job in the games got like 10 new abilities and made them more god like and less demi god like. While rdm, the weakest job in the game, got nerfed to hell, thf hasn't been touched, and really every job that needs stuff is untouched, but all the god jobs are now more godly

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I understand this concern. However, for me I feel that such aspects at this, infant level juncture of the game (Do not count FFXIV 1.0 as a point in history, the game was reconstructed neigh completely only barely reusing assets that saved them development time. Most of the game was scrapped or re-coded.) only a year in, I can't expect that depth to truly grow so quickly. ToAU was multiple years into FFXI's development.

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I understand, Yoshi & co have even had to catch up on stuff after release. But what we're asking for here does not seem to be the direction of the game, so I'd like to make our voices heard.

I don't really have a good answer for efficiency. It's hard to balance, especially when adding that customization and depth we're asking for here. I understand that. But as long as the dev team makes their best effort, even if it falls a little short and the job is considered less efficient... I would still rather have said deep job than not.

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

Puppet master is still one of the most under performing jobs in 11. Even with all that "customization" you could do. There wasn't any. People won't yell at you in endgame in 11 for doing what you want with your auto, they would tell you No! And spread it across the entire server that you don't know your job. Then you never end being allowed to ever do endgame. If you haven't played 11, then don't talk about a job on it like you hace. Also the Lore in 14 is 1000th better then the lore in 11. While the storyline in 11 was great the world's lore was non existence until WotG expansion. 14 has much better storyline and more then 11, and it's only 1 yr old. 11 is going on 11+yrs now. While it looks like you can customize an auto you had 1 set up that was required and costed millions of Gil to assemble. If you tried to customize it your own way, your auto would underpreform. It Was A cool job but 11 was all about the illusion of custimization. Without having any.

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I'm not asking for a copy of XI mechanics, endgame, or puppetmaster in XI. Nor am I asking for a copy of XI's lore. Please read my original post, and if further clarification is still needed, the next 2 pages or so.