The new seek invite function

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

The party match is reversed from FF11.

Instead of the people asking to join, the leader opens a room for people to join. Much like your FPS style, you make a room, and you wait for people to come in (except with uber bad filters..like I want a glad...and a conj? nope can do)

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Yes you can do that. Use the + and - buttons, they add more slots (you can only add up to 4 though, I think :X I always just put it as "Any" and "7").

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Basically it's super bad system. More so since they took out any form of search.

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Press the search button?

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FF11 was way more efficient and better in that you can filter any and what way with /sea [modifier]

It's another example of the fail motto "Not be FF11 for the sake of not being FF11" that doomed the game.

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Can't argue there.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Not that simple since it's about 20 steps more then an already established FF11 method. Kinda like MWs to the efficiency of AH.

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It's like 4 steps. It's not hard at all, but then again, people in this game are getting incredibly lazy.

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You can't directly invite them (because the invite system is also crippled) you can't communicate, and you can't cross reference. (if they picked U'ath and you picked none, nothing shows up)

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You can send people invites with /party cmd add [name] or something like that + you can invite them from the party system. You can also send tells from there. And I don't know what you mean by cross reference. Setting it to "Purpose: None" or "Location: None" allows you to see "All" in those categories, except "Seek Invite" because then you'd have a cluttered list mixed of parties being formed and people wanting an invite.

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Worse of all, you can't even distinguish features due to the broken(aka nonexistant) /sea system.

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Not sure what else they need besides Rank distinguishing. You can distinguish by class, location of action, and what they want to do.

It works fine. People just need to start using it. I've seen at least 5 JP parties start up from the patch, but none from NA. They need better documentation on it, and they could stand to make it a little easier (such as one-touch "Seek Invite") but it works fine right now. Just gotta figure it out.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Not sure what else they need besides Rank distinguishing. You can distinguish by class, location of action, and what they want to do.

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Roles they want to fill (dps, healer, tank) and their respective level for each of those roles. A single player should be able to show himself as wanting to heal at rank 25, dps at rank 15 or 40 and tank at rank 40 all of this while he soloing at rank 10 during his wait. This hypothetical player would be CON 25/ARC 15/PUG 40/THM 10 (healing as a CON, DPSing as ARC, DPSing and tanking as a PUG and soloing as a THM). The FF14 class system is more complex than the average single role system, so our LFM/LFG tool should take this into consideration.

Consider the Rift LFG tool for instance, you have 4 check-boxes, one per role you want to LFG for. And Rift game has only one global level for each role...

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It works fine. People just need to start using it.

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Technically, I agree, it "works". But it absolutely not something I would qualify of usable. Everything I asked for can be done in a single window, with no dropbox and only checkboxes. Two clics in total could be enough to set up what I asked, assuming the window is nicely done.

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Originally Posted by Nipa

Roles they want to fill (dps, healer, tank) and their respective level for each of those roles. A single player should be able to show himself as wanting to heal at rank 25, dps at rank 15 or 40 and tank at rank 40 all of this while he soloing at rank 10 during his wait. This hypothetical player would be CON 25/ARC 15/PUG 40/THM 10 (healing as a CON, DPSing as ARC, DPSing and tanking as a PUG and soloing as a THM). The FF14 class system is more complex than the average single role system, so our LFM/LFG tool should take this into consideration.

Consider the Rift LFG tool for instance, you have 4 check-boxes, one per role you want to LFG for. And Rift game has only one global level for each role...

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I guess, but it's completely functional without that. GLA or MRD will most likely tank/DPS, CON will most likely heal, THM will most likely nuke.

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Technically, I agree, it "works". But it absolutely not something I would qualify of usable. Everything I asked for can be done in a single window, with no dropbox and only checkboxes. Two clics in total could be enough to set up what I asked, assuming the window is nicely done.

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"Can be done better" =/= "unusable." A lot of things can be done better. It's fine as it is and a total rehaul of it would only be necessary if people in the game are too lazy to read documentation (that should be put up).

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

I guess, but it's completely functional without that. GLA or MRD will most likely tank/DPS, CON will most likely heal, THM will most likely nuke.

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But you can't look for all of that at the same time. I think. I'm not even sure (and I can't start the game atm).

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"Can be done better" =/= "unusable." A lot of things can be done better. It's fine as it is and a total rehaul of it would only be necessary if people in the game are too lazy to read documentation (that should be put up).

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Well, this is subjective, I would say. Something really badly designed can be considered as unusable for some people.

In this case, having to read a documentation to use a lfg tool seems completely crazy for me, and I certainly understand if the majority of players don't bother using a tool so much convoluted. We are here to have fun, right?

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Originally Posted by Nipa

But you can't look for all of that at the same time. I think. I'm not even sure (and I can't start the game atm).

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You can.

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Well, this is subjective, I would say. Something really badly designed can be considered as unusable for some people.

In this case, having to read a documentation to use a lfg tool seems completely crazy for me, and I certainly understand if the majority of players don't bother using a tool so much convoluted. We are here to have fun, right?

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It's not subjective, and the only reason documentation is needed is because people can't figure out something as obvious as a +/- button and drop-down lists :S

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

It's not subjective

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Uh? I am only saying that usability is subjective. If someone is used to an interface style, he will be able to use an interface of the same kind very quickly. If he encounters an new kind of interface, he may find difficult to use it. And some people will have more difficulty to adapt than others.

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and the only reason documentation is needed is because people can't figure out something as obvious as a +/- button and drop-down lists :S

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A drop-down list is not obvious, for something that could be done with a check box. You don't have all the informations on the screen at all time, this requires you to fiddle with the interface a bit to understand how it works. For some people, this is difficult. For other, it's a bother. Those people will rather spam in the local shout for a party.

Check boxes, radio-buttons, text-aeras are obvious, because everything is on-screen at once. Dropdown lists, +/- systems, menus, are less obvious (and it's no binary, a text-based interface a la "/pcmd add" is even less obvious).

And again, having to read a documentation to play a game is crazy. For some people this is the exact opposite of everything a game means.

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Originally Posted by Nipa

And again, having to read a documentation to play a game is crazy. For some people this is the exact opposite of everything a game means.

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Welcome to RPGs? Especially Square Enix RPGs.

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A drop-down list is not obvious, for something that could be done with a check box. You don't have all the informations on the screen at all time, this requires you to fiddle with the interface a bit to understand how it works. For some people, this is difficult. For other, it's a bother. Those people will rather spam in the local shout for a party.

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It is pretty obvious. They have the downward arrows next to them, and it says what the field is. Check boxes would clutter the screen so much, and it's impossible to use a check-box for Rank anyways.

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Check boxes, radio-buttons, text-aeras are obvious, because everything is on-screen at once. Dropdown lists, +/- systems, menus, are less obvious (and it's no binary, a text-based interface a la "/pcmd add" is even less obvious).

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Radio button wouldn't really do much. Classes pretty much have set roles. You don't expect a GLA or MRD to do more than Tank/DPS, which they can do at the same time, so having a radio button for that would be redundant. CON who wants to nuke would never be invited to a dungeon party because they are the only class capable of AoE-healing.

Agree on the /party cmd thing, needs to be fixed. However that isn't something that has to do with the party search interface.

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Uh? I am only saying that usability is subjective. If someone is used to an interface style, he will be able to use an interface of the same kind very quickly. If he encounters an new kind of interface, he may find difficult to use it. And some people will have more difficulty to adapt than others.

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Usability is not subjective. The amount of it is, but you can't say "this is unusable" as a general statement if other players can use it just fine. The intuitiveness of an interface is a different story, however, and the entire interface of FFXIV is unintuitive if you've never played FFXI before.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Welcome to RPGs? Especially Square Enix RPGs.

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I have played most of the old FF games without ever reading a manual, and I'm still alive. I most certainly misunderstood the effect of a lot of skills and missed a lot of secrets, yet I have had my share of fun and could finished them without difficulty.

I have yet to see a recent "mainstream" MMO where the average user had to read a external manual at some point. Of course, there is still the need to use external sources of information (you guild, general chats, wiki, forums), but only for advanced mechanisms (and I feel this is a part of the game). Having to use a manual to, say, invite another player or use a LFG tool seems wrong to me, as those are basic mechanisms.

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It is pretty obvious. They have the downward arrows next to them, and it says what the field is. Check boxes would clutter the screen so much, and it's impossible to use a check-box for Rank anyways.

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It could be, with a grid for instance: one row for each class you have (rank indicated) and a column for each role available (dps, heal, tank, maybe support). Wouldn't take a lot of space (we have 7 classes I think, and this would only show the actually played ones). You could even disable the roles a clan can't play (but that would be a bit of shame for the system diversity).

Also, I only listed radio buttons as an example of easier to use widgets. Whatever hides information on requires more clics, if it can be avoided, always increase the accessibility.

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Usability is not subjective. The amount of it is, but you can't say "this is unusable" as a general statement if other players can use it just fine. The intuitiveness of an interface is a different story, however, and the entire interface of FFXIV is unintuitive if you've never played FFXI before.

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I can use a command line interface, while my mother can't. By "can't" I mean, it would make her run away and scream (and I'm not even joking). For her, it's unusable while for me, it's usable. I really don't see why usability has to be an absolute value.

But if it's only the choice of wording that bother you, you can re-read all my posts subsisting 'usable' for, say, 'intuitive enough for the average MMO player' (someone else than your or me, that is to say), because this is really my point. We can have a LFG interface that anyone can use without any requirement, so why not ask for one? Or better, try to design one, as SE seems to have some problems with general accessibility.

Anyway, I don't think SE or anyone else is still reading us...

I want the current system completly removed. 90% of people dont understand it, It may very well work and you can explain the system untill your blue in the face, but noone cares because noone uses it or wants to.

A quick mock-up:

http://imageupload.org/?d=8ABE9C821

Yeah I suck at design, sorry for that. Yeah this won't work with a gamepad, but again, they announced we would have two different interfaces. But that's an idea.