End the Debate? Hardcore and Regular Servers

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

People may not know this, but playing the game is actually more fun then whining about it on the forums.

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*Starts jotting down notes*

"Playing....game..... is.... more... fun.... than whining......"

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

People may not know this, but playing the game is actually more fun then whining about it on the forums.

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This may be the most important post in the history of these boards.

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Originally Posted by DSX

http://i5.minus.com/ih4nqfmZTYDbY.jpg

as long as this picture is true this game is incapable of hardcore servers or content.

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Ah yes, "Rock, Paper, Scissors" the most hardcore game ever invented...

XI's BLM could boiled down in a similiarly biased way to...

"A wild PUGIL appears!"

"BLM casts LIGHTNING!...It was super effective!"

"wild Pugil faints."

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

Ah yes, "Rock, Paper, Scissors" the most hardcore game ever invented...

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While I found it quite amusing when I just started playing, it is indeed quite a stupid comparison.
Apart from the fact that both games carry the same name, are from the same company and have several similarities we're talking about two completely different games with completely different mechanics.

Now to shit on this comparison a little, for fun.
If we really were to boil down BLM usefulness in endgame between both games (bar in mind I have quit FFXI over 6 months ago so things may have changed):
FFXI: Stun! Oh no, who am I kidding? We have Scholars for that! Do you have another job?
FFXIV: You have one job soldier: Blow that shit to hell!

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

Ah yes, "Rock, Paper, Scissors" the most hardcore game ever invented...

XI's BLM could boiled down in a similiarly biased way to...

"A wild PUGIL appears!"

"BLM casts LIGHTNING!...It was super effective!"

"wild Pugil faints."

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Originally Posted by Shirai

While I found it quite amusing when I just started playing, it is indeed quite a stupid comparison.
Apart from the fact that both games carry the same name, are from the same company and have several similarities we're talking about two completely different games with completely different mechanics.

Now to shit on this comparison a little, for fun.
If we really were to boil down BLM usefulness in endgame between both games (bar in mind I have quit FFXI over 6 months ago so things may have changed):
FFXI: Stun! Oh no, who am I kidding? We have Scholars for that! Do you have another job?
FFXIV: You have one job soldier: Blow that shit to hell!

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My point was not about specific games but how deep the rabbit hole can go in terms of gameplay mechanics compared to FFXIV. So that picture could have any other game on the left side with the same complexity as FFXI gameplay mechanics and my statement would be the same. If you don't have the necessary gameplay mechanics needed for a deep and high level challenge then you simply mathematically cannot do it and you are simply locked to shuffling simpleton fights.

let me repost what i said before yet again:

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Originally Posted by DSX

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

An easy skillset does not means you cannot play hardcore. See GW's PvP as a working example of the past.

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Having a gameplay complexity that respects my intelligence is the cornerstone IMHO. without it you are forever locked in simpleton gameplay mechanics however you like to shuffle it, because it is mathematically impossible to have any high level challenges

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Then, even if the idea to divide players in "pro" and "carebears" goes live, I am pretty sure a good number of "pro" goes to play in "carebear" server for the lolz to slap newbz.

Then, a number of regular will go to hardcore because their ego doesn't want them feel "inferior" to anyone.

Result: nothing changes.

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This is understandable since it is typical human behavior so yes we will see it but I don't think it will be on a large scale.

But again even if they do separate servers those new servers are not "hardcore" because as I have stated:

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Originally Posted by DSX

http://i5.minus.com/ih4nqfmZTYDbY.jpg

as long as this picture is true this game is incapable of hardcore servers or content.

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I not only approved of this idea, I suggested it that one glorious day I was Naoki Yoshida. Granted I took things overboard but the gist was the same. Granted I know the end result would be the hardcore fleeing in droves back to the normal servers because it's too hard and there's too many better players. Still I am curious to see if that would shut up all of the "Go back to WoW, scrub/carebear/casual." remarks.

And finally for your enjoyment my original post:

Producer/Director Yoshida here, due to suggestions regarding the game's difficulty we will be adding a new super-mega-epic-elite-hardcore server. This server will have drop rates set at .01% for all items, even quest items. Vendor prices, housing prices, and market board taxes will also be increased by 2000%. Also to cater to the most hardcore of our players all monsters's special attacks will now one shot the players. If there is high enough demand for more difficulty we will consider adding in perma-death.

And as a special feature anyone on the forums who mention that the current game is too easy will have their characters automatically transferred to our new server for free.

Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by DSX

My point was not about specific games but how deep the rabbit hole can go in terms of gameplay mechanics compared to FFXIV.

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A rabbithole no one jumped into. Ya, you had a lot of spells, but 90% of them you never touched because they would never land, weren't helpful, or weren't MP efficient. MB's were ok, but not that complex. The charts made it look much harder than it was. Just boiled down to waiting for other DD's doing their thing then hitting your 1 spell. Also, to be fair to FFXIV here, that picture fails to mention the MP upkeep mechanic (umbral Ice), enhanced ability procs, and other tricks you can do.

.......Also what does this have to do with the OP? This thread makes no sense at all...

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

The hardcore server would be empty - hardcores wouldn't play.

They need casuals to "show off" to and to make snippy one liners to and post overused internet meme pictures.... and having casuals seeing all content and getting rewards would kill their e-peen and make being a special butterfly impossible.

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You really think the majority of those players fit this stereotype? Do you think there is something inherent about pushing content that makes someone a lesser human being compared to yourself? I've often found quite the opposite, it tends to be players who don't push content and really have nothing to "show off" who behave in the way you suggest.

Also everyone likes to pretend someone's old class required a brain surgeon to play. It's as old as Feral DPS. This isn't Last Starfighter.

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

A rabbithole no one jumped into. Ya, you had a lot of spells, but 90% of them you never touched because they would never land, weren't helpful, or weren't MP efficient. MB's were ok, but not that complex. The charts made it look much harder than it was. Just boiled down to waiting for other DD's doing their thing then hitting your 1 spell. Also, to be fair to FFXIV here, that picture fails to mention the MP upkeep mechanic (umbral Ice), enhanced ability procs, and other tricks you can do.

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How much you used was completely dependent on what type of game play you chose for yourself especially when people choose to just go with the flow or experiment with things and also what content you chose to do and what content you chose to ignore but that is beside my point so let me explain please.

My point is the deeper your rabbit hole is the more variety of gameplay options are mathematically possible for the gameplay designers and the battle designers to implement in the game and the a wide spectrum from simple battles to a very high complex battles that challenge your mind before challenging your button pressing speed (and so some players also challenging their internet ping speed). FFXIV simple and shallow gameplay mechanics can only allow for simpleton battle mechanics that get shuffled from fight to fight.

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

.......Also what does this have to do with the OP? This thread makes no sense at all...

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Well the OP advocating "hardcore servers" and what I'm saying is that this game is incapable mathematically of "hardcore" content and so incapable of "hardcore" servers.

I think most people are misremembering how complicated FF11's blm really was. By the time I joined in 2006 no one bothered with skill chains. Even in endgame it was all "Go when you have the tp." So blms either just ran the gauntlet of the elemental wheel or focused on the one spell the monster was weak against and prayed the ninja could keep it's attention.