Stop lying to your groups

Going into a fight you don't know and wiping the group because you're too dishonest/prideful/spineless to ask what to watch out for is disgusting.

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Originally Posted by Keyblade

Why wouldnt i lie. IF i get into coil by lying then thats great. Id like to see the 7 other ppl qq just cause im new.
Especially if ive gone DPS i should be able to get carried and learn the fight or at least fail and get experiance.
Groups saying experiance only deserve ata least 1 new person. How else is anyone going to get a go in coil.

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Move along, nothing to see here but cancer.

Woah... I'm agreeing with Keyblade. What magick is this.

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Originally Posted by ispano

The same way those experienced players did. By making a group and going in. Not by lying to other experienced players, which early on there were none. They made their own groups. They put in the time and effort, and they can choose if they want experienced players or not. You don't get to make that decision for them.

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It's too easy to "form your own group" when most of the community is new at it.
Just like it's so easy to ask for "experienced onry" after you had the opportunity of seeing it.

Then again, "easy" is the key word for modern MMORPG players... "easy" and "fast".

I think the major problem with most of these groups that shout for “experienced players only” are remembering the negative sides of learning content and not the positive aspects as well.

There are those (not all obviously) that will get that first Titan win or Coil turn clear and instantly start shouting for experienced groups the next time, as if the previous runs they went on before they weren’t learning the content themselves, and likely either had someone who had done the fight or found the info elsewhere (this obviously doesn’t apply to first time fresh content where EVERYONE is learning at the same time and NOBODY is shouting for experienced groups).


This kind of leads to two points the first being…



Don’t queue into Duty Finder if you’re expecting experienced groups / speed runs.


Just don’t, you’ll save yourself the headache.

The DF is intended for people to learn and complete content on the average level, it’s designed for people to hop in, pick up, and learn content and in some cases become comfortable enough with the mechanics of something to pass them along to their friends and maybe queue in with a premade.

The DF is NOT designed for you to barrel through a speed run while yelling at the poor WHM that just hit 50 to cure you as you sit there tanking half of WP on their first time in.

Shocker, I know.

If you want a speed run or quick clears or experienced groups for anything that uses the duty finder (everything but coil) then do yourself and the poor WHM a favor.


Make a premade.


Which leads me to my second point…


Have honest and fair expectations when making a shout group.


Now understand I still stand by my previous comment here:

“The ONLY group you are entitled to be a part of is the one you have created yourself.”

And while I can see why people who shout for experienced members only do so under the (mostly false) impression that it will lead to more successful runs, this isn’t always the case if anything it kind of comes off as lazy more often than not.

If someone is geared (not over geared, this will become more apparent when iLVL restrictions are in place) for content and willing to learn there really isn’t a reason not to take them in.

Keep in mind the fact that you are shouting for a group at this point means one of two things

A) You are unable to fill your group with members from your FC / LS(s) for any number of reasons.
B) You aren’t in an FC / LS(s)

Assuming that someone wants to do say… Coil and they’re in an FC and/or a few LS(s) it stands to reason that they would fill with those members first and then try to shout for extra’s, 9 out of 10 times this is the case.

Meaning you’re asking someone to come fill a spot you otherwise have empty; assuming you and the people you started with are experienced enough to win the fight already it shouldn’t matter if the person you get is an expert as long as they have appropriate gear, unless of course the opposite is true and you’re only asking for experienced members to join your groups to carry you.

Oh and if your point is “We don’t have time to teach etc etc”

You’ll waste more time turning people away than you will giving out a few pointers here and there in regards to mechanics on most fights (assuming you’re calling out this stuff anyway which more often than not you should be)
And the best part?

If you’re lucky the person you spent the time to grab and teach may even perform well, in fact if it goes well enough you might even recruit them to your FC / LS and have one less person to shout for when it comes to future runs.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

Woah... I'm agreeing with Keyblade. What magick is this.



It's too easy to "form your own group" when most of the community is new at it.
Just like it's so easy to ask for "experienced onry" after you had the opportunity of seeing it.

Then again, "easy" is the key word for modern MMORPG players... "easy" and "fast".

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You still don't get to make the decision for them. The problem here, people are asking for experienced players. Ok, nothing really special there. The problem comes when someone comes in and says they are, when they're not. They're FORCING their choice of coming inexperienced to a group that is requesting experienced. You are forcing your decision. And in something that's not DF accessible, this can easily lead to hitting a blacklist. I already know people on our server that are making one. Easy, difficult, doesn't matter. The problem is you feel your decision to barge in is more important than 7 other people's decision to want someone experienced. You are wrong, period.

i think its more a 2 way street,
What ive seen happen is someone ask for help, like a strategy and the tank says "Get lost scrub" and leaves the group. Its most likely the reason why most first timers dont ask what to do in higher dungeon/primal fights. Most pricks just think they should already know the strategy and stuff to do.

Then if the team gets wiped, by an honest mistake, you will have pricks who just up and leave on first wipe. This is essentially annoying during HM primal fights as you can not replenish your members

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Originally Posted by gintoki88

i think its more a 2 way street,
What ive seen happen is someone ask for help, like a strategy and the tank says "Get lost scrub" and leaves the group. Its most likely the reason why most first timers dont ask what to do in higher dungeon/primal fights. Most pricks just think they should already know the strategy and stuff to do.

Then if the team gets wiped, by an honest mistake, you will have pricks who just up and leave on first wipe. This is essentially annoying during HM primal fights as you can not replenish your members

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The problem is that by lying, you become just as bad the the people you described. I grew thick skin to people online a long time ago. If i'm new, or have doubts, etc, I will make them known. If some blowhard has an issue, I don't let it bother me. But it's disrespectful to go in under the presumption I know what i'm doing, when I don't. It's disrespectful to 3 or 7. That's something truly selfish people do, and I won't have any part of it, from either side.

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Originally Posted by Razzle

Agreed. There is a reason people "lie"... And it's the "experienced" players that's at fault. Personally I never lied just cause I couldn't care less, I can always find a group. If not "experienced" then "inexperienced"... Both will get a win eventually.

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It's not the experienced people's fault. It's the "special"(So as to not use something more vulgar) people. And even then? Not their fault either. The problem is you want to place blame on someone else. Even if those people were rude, jumped ship at the first word of someone new, etc. It's STILL the liars fault for lying that they are experienced when they are not. Period.

I hate explaining Demon Wall.

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Originally Posted by Ryel

“But I don’t say anything / lie because shout groups are asking for Relic +1 Pomeranians experienced in advanced fire hoop jumping and all I know how to play is the tuba”

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I'm now advertising I want Relic+1 Pomeranians or bust.

But I completley agree, if you lie we'll find out, it's easier to just say "I've never done it before, would be okay with showing me how it's done?"

It's 10x better to ask and probably get accepted in anway than weasel your way into it, sure you'll get a few people that'll say no, but eventually someone will take you.
Alternatively shout for a "Amdapor Keep, Normal Run"

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Originally Posted by Keyblade

Why wouldnt i lie. IF i get into coil by lying then thats great. Id like to see the 7 other ppl qq just cause im new.
Especially if ive gone DPS i should be able to get carried and learn the fight or at least fail and get experiance.
Groups saying experiance only deserve ata least 1 new person. How else is anyone going to get a go in coil.

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How obstinate of you, seven other players probably wouldn't mind showing you how to do it if you simply said "I'm not sure how this fight goes, can you guys show me how it works, it doesn't look too hard from the video, learning it in-game is easier I think though" VERY few groups will refuse you IF you are polite and considerate.

Going in with "lol, dem idiuts will cari m 2 turn 5 an i get alhagun wepun, h-huuuuuuuuuuh" will only leave you with a red-bottom when your team realises you have no clue what your doing after you eat your third balast, piercing laser or wiping the party to Allagan Rot.

Way to go /slowclap teamwork in a nut-shell.


In terms of 'How else do I get into a coil group?', you simply ask "My Paladin is geared and i'm willing to learn the fight, would you mind letting me come and show me how the fights works?" if they refuse you, you ask another.


Alternately, find a free-company, join as [job name here] and let them teach you and nurture you and gear you up and rainbows will be flying out of your arse when you realise "This is better this way!"

let me guess: happens in NA servers only? lol

Here's a funny tid-bit: Back when I do my pld relic, I joined df Titan thinking just for practice only. Didn't say much except say Hello. Next thing I know, the group won it and nailed my relic instantly.

So I guess 'Silence is Golden' eh? XD