24 man content DOA

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Originally Posted by Wobi

I'm glad you know exactly how it will work already, thanks for the insight. If they made it where the content can be cleared with iLVL55 gear then it shouldn't be too big of a problem. Fact is, this is how it will launch. You'll have to see how this plays out.

I am overgeared for it on multiple jobs but that doesn't mean I don't think other players should have a fair shake at clearing the content. I'm entirely confident this was their plan to set it up with 3 sets of 8 thru the Duty Finder so that geared players would actually try it out with people they do not know. Later on they will likely allow it to be set up as a 24 man pre-made but I'd be willing to bet they haven't got around to coding that yet.

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(They have indicated that they are working on full 24-person pre-formed alliance support.)

Of course this is all speculation. For all we know, they might just lay out treasure caskets at the entrance and the challenging mechanics and splitting pathways are just Turn 3 style lit platforms. Obviously, we reason that this is probably not going to happen.

Most of us think it's also fair to reason that the new duty kick function will not be nearly as powerful as it needs to be to weed out trolls/griefers/AFKers/rude/offensive/bad players, based on SE's design philosophy (they don't even want us sending /tells in duties because they're afraid we'll be mean) and resistance to the idea in the first place.

Do we honestly think that it will give pre-made parties the freedom to kick out all other 16 players and keep cycling through until they find other pre-made parties, at the very least? Common sense says that it will, at minimum, be decided by majority vote, in which case the pre-made party will never be able to win votes on their own. But yes, you're right, anything could happen, maybe SE will decide to throw common sense out the window? Sorry, not sure how your argument is valid here.

We don't have to see how it plays out. A reactive community is the death of this MMO. By waiting up to two content patch cycles to make our concerns and needs known, many more players will be fed up with the state of the game and leave. This harms everyone, whether you agree with why they left or not.

We need to be proactive and decisive about our needs and generate solutions in dialogue with developers about what works, what doesn't work, and what's possible. Why even have this forum at all if that's not the purpose, to make our concerns known? If our concerns prove false, then what's the worst that happens? Are we causing harm by saying how we feel? Seeing as these discussions have no negative impact, you are not justified in coming on the board and saying that we are not justified in our concerns.

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Was already DOA when it was content behind coil.

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No, it wans't. You might be conquering coil but the vast majority of the player base has not. Even people who have cleared coil will have some reason to do it (at least, the people who are willing to branch out and play more than 1 job in the game), but this content is aimed at the general populace, not endgamers. That doesn't make it dead on arrival.

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Originally Posted by Ozz

I hope the community reps pass our feedback to YoshiP and the dev team.

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They might but this sadly looks by design and nothing can be done about it. One, they'd have to code a way to form an alliance outside of instances which they won't because the 2.1 branch is pretty much finished by now, even though the alliance framework is already there just locked into the CT instance but whatever, it's most likely already implemented in their 2.2+ branch.

Second is artificially extending the content by having uncoordinated and unexperienced groups each time, just look at how many duty finder groups still have issues with Garuda Hard and even Ifrit Hard, not even mentioning Titan Hard or even dungeons. Of course you can twist this by saying this allows less dedicated people without a FC to clear content and that's well and fine, but there goes pretty much the whole battle content related purpose of a FC in regards to CT.

Plenty of dedicated FCs have well more than 24 people by now too, anyone who says otherwise is simply ignorant or loves SE and Final Fantasy too much. They did say CT was going to be 24 man content for close to a year before release many times, and that was one of the main reasons to form a FC for a lot of people.

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

We need to be proactive and decisive about our needs and generate solutions in dialogue with developers about what works, what doesn't work, and what's possible. Why even have this forum at all if that's not the purpose, to make our concerns known? If our concerns prove false, then what's the worst that happens? Are we causing harm by saying how we feel? Seeing as these discussions have no negative impact, you are not justified in coming on the board and saying that we are not justified in our concerns.

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While I agree with many of your points quite of few of these posts are speculative, the sky is falling business. Those types of posts *do* cause harm. However I can see why the devs made the decisions they did, for the greater bulk of the FFXIV community. Just because some of us have large FC's and well geared tight-knit groups to steamroll through this others do not. They are adding incentives not to troll with MIP and vote-kick, which should alleviate some of these issues.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Um, it's not being nerfed into the ground? It's not impossible for FC's to do it together? The average size including on and offline members of an FC is probably less than 20? Form an 8 man group. Your very same logic can be used against what you want: If they delay the crystal tower longer, it will be even less relevant when it comes out. Maybe they should just not release it at all then?

No FC is going to "crumble" over this, and the functionality that caters to the few FCs that can actually field 24 people for one event will come later. For the rest of us, we can enjoy the content now. I haven't made any point that should make people angrier, it should make them happier or not "make" them anything. at all.

The game is no more or less "finished" than any MMO was at its launch. As you should know and should keep you from making such comments, MMOs are never "finished." They could delay the game 10 years to add 100 new dungeons and 20 new battle systems, or they could let us play it now and intdoduce those things gradually over time.

I don't "defend everything this company does." There are plenty of things I'm not super happy with and/or wish would be changed in a certain way. That being said I do not see the problem in what they're doing with this dungeon. The people complaining about it are not the people that the dungeon was being made for in the first place. Apparently we're not allowed to be happy with things, doing so gets us branded "white knights."

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The original post specifically said that his Free Company was specifically formed with this specific content in mind for their specific 24-person group composition. There are many FCs in a similar/identical situation, since the Crystal Tower was (admittedly, unjustifiably) hyped as an epic 24-person encounter, and it is not inconceivable that many of them will be incredibly frustrated, if not destroyed, by this lack of functionality.

Hey buddy can u leave the instant we are trying to run with fc member.. Thanks....Nooo.. Dude why not we ask u nicely.... I want to run it to and i dont have alot of time to play.......... Common man just leave u @#¤¥ we want to run with fc.JUST KICK HIM!!!! We cant he hasnt gone afk for 5 mins.. lmao and thats what going to happen in CT goo DF

PS wth he's still moving

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Yes I know what a whiteknight is, and yes you are one.

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No, I don't, and no, I am not. You certainly are a black knight though, who can't be satisfied by any reasonable counterargument.

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A: You are butthurt your FC is small and can't do it alone
or
B: You are just a blatant whiteknight.

I'm guessing both.

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Try "None of the above." I certainly have more than enough people in my circle of friends to form a party for this content.

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The original post specifically said that his Free Company was specifically formed with this specific content in mind for their specific 24-person group composition.

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It's quite honestly beyond me why anybody in their right mind would specifically form a company for content that hasn't been released which we had no details on. You don't know how it's going to work. You can't prepare for something without that kind of information, so why form a group without that information?

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Wow, you are a smart one! You just completely described yourself with your definition of White Knighting.

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I gave perfectly reasonable arguments in defense of the current situation. You're free to disagree with them, but that doesn't make me a "white knight." You seem enjoy branding people, but I guess that's just par for the course on the internet.

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Nobody thinks that reason is legitamate, except for you and other trolls like you.

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I'm not a troll, you are, and just because you don't like something doesn't mean nobody does.

You basically spent your entire post attacking me instead of arguing for your postion, proof positive that you are a black knight and don't care what anyone else thinks, your opinion is the only "right" one. Attacking the person is a logical fallacy, didn't you know?

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

Of course speculative posts are incredibly alarmist and carry a 'sky-is-falling' mentality. Players will ramp up / exaggerate their concern to get feedback when they feel they are not being heard (as is the case right now for most angry posters).

While MIP and Vote-kick will help, it won't solve the problem. That's mostly the issue here - is that SE recognizes and has responded to many of the issues (trolls, griefers, AFKers) but only promised a partial solution. I say partial because the angry posters here can see that the obvious/glaring/clear full solution - 24-person alliance formation support, and believe (reasonably or not) that it should be easy to implement.

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I agree fully with this reasonable statement.

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Originally Posted by Wobi

While I agree with many of your points quite of few of these posts are speculative, the sky is falling business. Those types of posts *do* cause harm. However I can see why the devs made the decisions they did, for the greater bulk of the FFXIV community. Just because some of us have large FC's and well geared tight-knit groups to steamroll through this others do not. They are adding incentives not to troll with MIP and vote-kick, which should alleviate some of these issues.

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Of course speculative posts are incredibly alarmist and carry a 'sky-is-falling' mentality. Players will ramp up / exaggerate their concern to get feedback when they feel they are not being heard (as is the case right now for most angry posters).

While MIP and Vote-kick will help, it won't solve the problem. That's mostly the issue here - is that SE recognizes and has responded to many of the issues (trolls, griefers, AFKers) but only promised a partial solution. I say partial because the angry posters here can see that the obvious/glaring/clear full solution - 24-person alliance formation support, and believe (reasonably or not) that it should be easy to implement.

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Originally Posted by OmegaBlack

Hey buddy can u leave the instant we are trying to run with fc member.. Thanks....Nooo.. Dude why not we ask u nicely.... I want to run it to and i dont have alot of time to play.......... Common man just leave u @#¤¥ we want to run with fc.JUST KICK HIM!!!! We cant he hasnt gone afk for 5 mins.. lmao and thats what going to happen in CT goo DF

PS wth he's still moving

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I'm hoping they were smart enough to make sure a strong majority was required to kick so that the honest players might outnumber the bad. You will be unable to add your FC mate if they log on all of a sudden because you are in the DF world. But sadly from the attitude I've seen in this thread alone I don't have high hopes for responsible Vote-Kick use. Hopefully they will allow for a GM review and perma-bans for abusers.

Yeah, forcing CT to be DF is just as poor a design choice as forcing Coil to be non-DF. They've put some really, really stupid restrictions in this game, and these aren't the only ones.