Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

Personally, I'd be more willing to cut Yoshi P some slack for this statement if it was a remotely true statement.

Let's take Dragonsong's Reprise for example, I played very safe to secure our clear and even then, I spent 48.15% of my casts on damage spells (Probably even more if we're only taking uptime into account, since most of the healing is done during downtime). Older ultimates would be even worse because of power creep. Where is this engagement Yoshi P promised to healers? All those 'mitigate or die' segments aren't engaging at all.

I've been saying everything in all of these pages forever, ever since Yoshi Ps response to something similar a long time ago was "Hmm..... I dont think so, I wonder how it would even work" then did nothing. I don't remember the full context but I remember that response being for people asking about something a bit more complex, and he basically just said between the lines I'm not smart enough or dont think the players are, to do that"

Everyone used to praise Yoshi for 2.0 and ya sure he deserved it, but he has not done a single freaking thing SINCE for 14 ANY sort of different. In fact, he's been constantly removing things to make "One size fits all" scenarios. I remember it started when he removed materia from mattering in PVP. A small step, and those smell steps kept happening more & getting bigger each time over years.

You can't even say if it aint broke dont fix it, because he is still changing things, dumbing them down more & more

It's been re-skinning the same pattern of quests & content and that's it. Bozja is the only thing really different & fun and that's what, 2 years old.
No new tougher systems, dumbing down PVP and removing content, instead of leaving what "he" thought was broken, and simply adding different modes.
V & C was fun to duo, but it lasted all of what, 2 days tops to get the mount & minion.

It's nice to see the majority are seeing all this now.
And ultimates pft, ya if I felt like playing the game as an Extrovert. I prefer our small groups. That's way too much damn talking to randoms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UnrealTai

Everyone used to praise Yoshi for 2.0 and ya sure he deserved it, but he has not done a single freaking thing SINCE for 14 ANY sort of different. In fact, he's been constantly removing things to make "One size fits all" scenarios. I remember it started when he removed materia from mattering in PVP. A small step, and those smell steps kept happening more & getting bigger each time over years.

You can't even say if it aint broke dont fix it, because he is still changing things, dumbing them down more & more

It's been re-skinning the same pattern of quests & content and that's it. Bozja is the only thing really different & fun and that's what, 2 years old.
No new tougher systems, dumbing down PVP and removing content, instead of leaving what "he" thought was broken, and simply adding different modes.
V & C was fun to duo, but it lasted all of what, 2 days tops to get the mount & minion.

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But that doesn’t matter to the playerbase. Many people say that FFXIV isn’t supposed to be your main game. You play the story, try the raids, then put it down for another game when it’s finished. The less content we have with each patch, the more time they have to play better games. It’s why FFXIV is still one of the most critically-acclaimed games of our time. It respects your time instead of bogging you down with stuff to do. I personally look forward to World of Warcraft: Dragonflight next week. No MMO other than FFXIV lets me focus on another MMO while on the subscriber rolls.

Just take it from the latest ads for the game:
https://files.catbox.moe/p61qvu.jpeg

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

That still doesn't make FFXIV's healing feel great or engaging. When the overwhelming majority of content is casual. I shouldn't feel like a gimped DPS but that's precisely what I am. I've used this example plenty but it bears repeating. 500+ casts of Dosis III in Aglaia, on content, is absurd. I'm not a healer at that point. I'm the aforementioned gimped-DPS with a single button "rotation."

None of this is exclusive to casual content either. I literally never healed a full Savage tier until Asphodelos yet managed to clear every single fight, in PF, without a single GCD pressed. And before someone claimed I chadded. My co-healer and I combined for 97% in P4S. There's about as efficient as you can get without going into speed kill territory. The fact this is possible at the Savage level is ridiculous—made worse by having a single button to spam endlessly.

It speaks volumes when the director of the entire game has to beg people to "give healers a chance." Maybe, just maybe, he (and the dev team as a whole) should listen to actual dedicated healer players and not people who barely engage the role and think spamming Medica II for every raid wide is a good idea. Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if the response to this tier's uptick in damage leads to an easier third tier. Better to kick the can than address the entire healing design has been incredibly flawed for two expansions now.

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Basically the same Echo Chamber we've been repeating ad nauseum since we figured it out in Shadowbringers. Even if he's not going to change healing mid-expansion, I want Yoshida and the battle team to know that we don't need anymore healing buttons - we need damage buttons to make healers great again. And honestly? I remember the time in Heavensward when I was playing WHM and didn't do much damage. That damage doesn't impact the raid until you MAKE IT impact the raid with high DPS checks, even at perfect play. Having those damage buttons provides more depth to healing than just "I'm just healing the damage then going back to pressing my 111111112."

Hell, even having a second DoT and a second damaging ability would provide more depth. If Yoshida and his team are worried about "complexity", they've got it all wrong. They should be more worried about "oversimplification", which leads to quite a dull experience if the healing portion of the game in particular isn't up to par with your DPS engagement. Looking at it from the casual player's standpoint, there could be intimidation on having more depth for some players; but in the past, using those buttons wasn't required even at Extreme level and rarely you'd need them for Savage unless you were doing Week 1 Prog; you were still focusing on healing and keeping the party alive. So for casuals, having more depth for DPS abilities doesn't impact them as much as it does people who are doing Extreme and Savage and Ultimate.

There's also this tiny detail that I can't ever stress enough:

H E A L E R S.
E X I S T.
O U T S I D E.
E N D G A M E.
R A I D I N G.

You wanna level? 1111111111
You doing the MSQ? 111111111
You doing a solo scenario? 1111111111
You wanna do fates? 111111111
You doing your job/role quest specifically and exclusively designed for healers? ...111111111

And before anyone uses the "just switch to a dps" argument, I shouldn't be forced to switch to another job just to do content that's allegedly available for everyone. I play a healer because I like being a healer, not because I have to be one. By that very logic, tanks shouldn't exist outside raiding/roulettes either, and yet there they are, with their 123(4) combos, damage buffs, and whatever gauge-related or big dps cooldowns they got - none of which is needed for tanking ever since they neutered aggro management in ShB.

I would like to add more dps skills in the toolkit but since thats obviously too avant-garde for the dev team, might as well make every content and mob encounter be as hard as Aurum Vale proportionally and call it a day.

You want to be a healer and use your skills? You GET TO BE A HEALER AND USE ALL THOSE SKILLS. NO DPS'ING ALLOWED

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Originally Posted by Allegor

H E A L E R S.
E X I S T.
O U T S I D E.
E N D G A M E.
R A I D I N G.

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You have broken the taboo; you know what happens to those who speak the forbidden logic.
Quickly, you must seek protection and go into hiding, lest the Knights of the White come after you and your home with Ragu.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

You have broken the taboo; you know what happens to those who speak the forbidden logic.
Quickly, you must seek protection and go into hiding, lest the Knights of the White come after you and your home with Ragu.

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https://i.imgur.com/GjL3uKi.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

You have broken the taboo; you know what happens to those who speak the forbidden logic.
Quickly, you must seek protection and go into hiding, lest the Knights of the White come after you and your home with Ragu.

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The issue with that logic is so do other Jobs, which guess what, ARE LESS ENGAGING OUT OF HIGH END CONTENT. Shocking huh?

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Shocking huh?

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You remind me of titles for Chinese drama-series clips on youtube.

"The Cinderella was angry, but the prince used one trick to make her smile the love into the street."
"Cinderella finally became a revenge and turned into Queen"

Just enough there to show that there's a vague understanding of existence, but not enough to get anything worthwhile out of it.
You're almost there.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I would like to add more dps skills in the toolkit but since thats obviously too avant-garde for the dev team, might as well make every content and mob encounter be as hard as Aurum Vale proportionally and call it a day.

You want to be a healer and use your skills? You GET TO BE A HEALER AND USE ALL THOSE SKILLS. NO DPS'ING ALLOWED

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You know what, at this point, that'd be the easy way out for them. Then they could blame it all on the players and advise that we have proven that we cannot handle such difficulties and have to return to what things were without any changes to our kit to account for the actual problems with the design.

It would at least give us a temporary uptick in liveliness though.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

You remind me of titles for Chinese drama-series clips on youtube.

"The Cinderella was angry, but the prince used one trick to make her smile the love into the street."
"Cinderella finally became a revenge and turned into Queen"

Just enough there to show that there's a vague understanding of existence, but not enough to get anything worthwhile out of it.
You're almost there.

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By all means then, prove me wrong instead of pretending you're better than your better

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Originally Posted by FireMage

By all means then, prove me wrong instead of pretending you're better than your better

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Simply cup your hands and hold them under the waterfall, and you, too, may have a drink.
But, while I am entertained by you and enjoy using you for my own amusement, I see no need to especially give you that which has already been freely given. After all, why try to douse the candle when the house has already caught on fire?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Simply cup your hands and hold them under the waterfall, and you, too, may have a drink.
But, while I am entertained by you and enjoy using you for my own amusement, I see no need to especially give you that which has already been freely given. After all, why try to douse the candle when the house has already caught on fire?

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Yeah, that's what I thought. You're incapable of it. You may leave now

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Originally Posted by FireMage

I thought

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Now that's a lie, and you know it, dearest.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Now that's a lie, and you know it, dearest.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

You aren't even a healer that does non brain dead content, what would you know?

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Welfare gear healer pls read, if you are even capable of doing so

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Originally Posted by FireMage

pls read

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Read a desperate plea for a knowledge check from someone who should have the ability to discern why the root problem is what should be discussed rather than the surface level, but can't seem to find it himself even though the very answer has been quoted by me on this very page?
I did say, in metaphor, that you could find the answer if you just looked. I suppose your prestigious raiding gear could make it difficult for you to see beyond yourself, but, since you're so superior, why do I need to help you find the answers that have already been given hundreds of times when I have bigger, more important fish to spend such time on? Instead, I prefer to play, and you're equivalent to the latest Barbie release as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Allegor

H E A L E R S.
E X I S T.
O U T S I D E.
E N D G A M E.
R A I D I N G.

You wanna level? 1111111111
You doing the MSQ? 111111111
You doing a solo scenario? 1111111111
You wanna do fates? 111111111
You doing your job/role quest specifically and exclusively designed for healers? ...111111111

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Does nobody use Dots, AOE, or skills like Assize when they play Healer?
I mean I get it, Healer lacks DPS skills and Variety in Combat outside of their Main Role but I think its silly, or just weird that it sounds like everyone just hits 1 Button as a healer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Read a desperate plea for a knowledge check from someone who should have the ability to discern why the root problem is what should be discussed rather than the surface level, but can't seem to find it himself even though the very answer has been quoted by me on this very page?
I did say, in metaphor, that you could find the answer if you just looked. I suppose your prestigious raiding gear could make it difficult for you to see beyond yourself, but, since you're so superior, why do I need to help you find the answers that have already been given hundreds of times when I have bigger, more important fish to spend such time on? Instead, I prefer to play, and you're equivalent to the latest Barbie release as far as I'm concerned.

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Again a bunch of bluster from someone that doesn't do anything but AFK in Limsa. Bads will be bads after all

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Does nobody use Dots, AOE, or skills like Assize when they play Healer?
I mean I get it, Healer lacks DPS skills and Variety in Combat outside of their Main Role but I think its silly, or just weird that it sounds like everyone just hits 1 Button as a healer.

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Bolded that for you, that's the thing.

DoT? once every 12 GCDs. That's a lot of presses on 1 button that's not a DoT.
AoE? 3 3 3 3 3 3 3, that's also one button fillers, except it's vs trash pulls/multi target situations.
Assize/other buttons? They're nowhere enough to break the feel of breaking your [1] nuke button.

If we have encounter that's designed to make us use those bloatsome healing buttons then sure.. but that's just not the case for the most part. At this point, there have been plenty of numbers posted in this thread referring just that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Does nobody use Dots, AOE, or skills like Assize when they play Healer?
I mean I get it, Healer lacks DPS skills and Variety in Combat outside of their Main Role but I think its silly, or just weird that it sounds like everyone just hits 1 Button as a healer.

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Well that issue with that is that you only hit your dot once every 30 seconds. A grand total of 2 times a minutes which does little to break up the monotony. When its 3 or more mobs, you're just spamming your aoe in place of your filler nuke. Assize is a ogcd that you hit on cd every 45 seconds.

When you look at casts and the actions per minute from the forbidden, you can see that the single target nuke can take up to 40-50 percent of all total casts, dwarfing everything else that comes after.

So yes, while we do have other buttons, how often we press them pales in comparison to our single target.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Does nobody use Dots, AOE, or skills like Assize when they play Healer?
I mean I get it, Healer lacks DPS skills and Variety in Combat outside of their Main Role but I think its silly, or just weird that it sounds like everyone just hits 1 Button as a healer.

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Sorry it should be...

2 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1

Such engaging gameplay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FireMage

AFK in Limsa.

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I've never spent time in Limsa, as the social scene in XIV is not my cup of tea. I'm actually a PVP main at the moment, as it's the only place I can find any satisfying engagement as an AST.

But you wouldn't know anything about that, just like how you couldn't really know what's the issue here, for quite literally the same reason: you never looked, and still won't look.
But I guess someone who paid their way to flaunt their status gear pieces shouldn't need to do something so mundane and simple if they can just pay people to do that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I mean I get it, Healer lacks DPS skills and Variety in Combat outside of their Main Role but I think its silly, or just weird that it sounds like everyone just hits 1 Button as a healer.

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It's less about the actual button presses and more about the perception when actually playing. Rein_eon_Osborne speaks well on this front.
Although, regarding what you said:
"Healer lacks DPS skills and Variety in Combat outside of their Main Role"

You're dancing around the issue at large. We indeed lack DPS skills, and our variety only comes in terms of healing; therefore, when downtime from needing to heal occurs, which is very often, there's little to no variety. As a result, since that downtime only ever gets larger, it means that we, as healers, are less engaged. The simpler the content, the more this is exacerbated.
Unfortunately, for a game, this would be a flaw; a long overlooked flaw, at that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

I'm actually a PVP main

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Admission that you have nothing of worth or value to contribute to the matter at hand. See how easy that was? Now if you wish to contribute go clear a tier on content

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FireMage

go clear a tier on content

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I'd prefer not to waste my time with something that offers almost no value to me for the matter at hand, but you can go ahead and enjoy reveling in it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Does nobody use Dots, AOE, or skills like Assize when they play Healer?
I mean I get it, Healer lacks DPS skills and Variety in Combat outside of their Main Role but I think its silly, or just weird that it sounds like everyone just hits 1 Button as a healer.

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The occasional dot refresh and/or off global attack that serves no purpose than to be used off cooldown does not make up for the *puts on glasses and squints* 500+ Dosis I fired in Aglaia.

For God's sake, we fire off more of our bog-standard dps spell than tanks and even a few melee classes can auto attack, how can anyone look at that and think "man, healer combat must be so exciting!". What, do you think spot healing Lil' Timmy after he stubbed his toe on an aoe with a 7 second indicator or throwing out a fire-and-forget barrier/regen for a heavily telegraphed raid-wide makes up for the fact that our "rotation" is absolute dog water?

Or maybe you're unaware of the fact that every healer (except WHM lol) is so full of healing/mitigation abilities with negligible to non-existent costs that you can easily go through an entire encounter without having to cast a single healing GCD?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Does nobody use Dots, AOE, or skills like Assize when they play Healer?
I mean I get it, Healer lacks DPS skills and Variety in Combat outside of their Main Role but I think its silly, or just weird that it sounds like everyone just hits 1 Button as a healer.

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This is a semanthics nitpick.

Yes, people use other skills. People heal. People use utility. But that's virtually every other class. The issue is that other classes rely on far more than that, often making use of 90% of their kit (not counting the AoE variety).

Healers, on the other hand, do nothing but throw rocks and that's it. Their DoT? Comes up every 30s. All the rest is pure nuance that doesn't give them any complexity whatsoever. Stuff like Phlegma, Assize or Earthly Star aren't the main thing you'll do. They're not your rotation. They're not the bare basic skillset, they're just OGCDs tacked onto them (a GCD in the case of Phlegma, which does shake up the monotony of pressing 1 all the time... for the exact same effect of pressing 1 all the time, just with a bit more potency and the potential to hit more than one target. Yipee.)

At lv 50 you have a solid base for most DPS, which gets expanded upon up to lv 90. Healers have a solid base at lv 30, barely get anything extra, just stronger ways of doing the same thing. The use of their initial spells becomes a bit more esoteric: they're still very much used, just not as common because now you have more effective things.
You're still doing nothing but throwing rocks and caring for a DoT every 30s and a cooldown every 45s on WHM. Peak gameplay.

Yes, comparing a healer to DPS isn't fair. Healers' main priority is keeping people alive, damage is secondary-ish. A DPS's job is almost never to keep people alive, but rather to maximize the damage output. So yes, I understand that you can't have anything major or complicated, you can't up and give Healers anything too over the top. Healer rotations would definitely get interrupted by their primary job.
But nothing they have is robust. Nothing they have interacts with their kit. Oh, I'm sorry, "Afflatus Misery does" -_-; It's just a replacement for all the 3 rocks you didn't throw while healing someone. Except realistically you're just throwing 3 rocks in one go and making up for lost damage. BRD has Blast Arrow and BLM is rewarded with Foul. Stuff that's actually impactful. The only other healer that has their healing kit interact with their damaging kit is Sage, and barely so at that: Kardia procs, and Toxikon stacks when a shield breaks.

No, healers can't afford to have over the top damaging rotations. But their kits should be more complex than just throwing rocks. Their kits can afford being more interactive between the offensive and healing aspects. More so than minor gains that prove inconsequential half the time. They can afford to do more with their skills, and have their healing kits not be repetitive and bloated.

Because even healing is just "what different variation of regen or cure 1 do you want this time?". Even AST who arguably has a more interesting and creative kit is straightforward all things considered, with half its healing kit being overshadowed by the new stuff you gain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

I'd prefer not to waste my time with something that offers almost no value to me for the matter at hand, but you can go ahead and enjoy reveling in it.

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It's okay to say you can't

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

If we have encounter that's designed to make us use those bloatsome healing buttons then sure.. but that's just not the case for the most part.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

So yes, while we do have other buttons, how often we press them pales in comparison to our single target.

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Weird, I use them. I use more then 1 button. Idk lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Sorry it should be...

2 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1

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Lots of 1s and a few 2s. Yeah that does sound abit dull. But I use more then that personally.
Weird, Ive never only had to use 1 or 2 buttons unless I was synced down to Old Early Game Content.
Maybe Im trying to hard or my parties suck

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

You're dancing around the issue at large. We indeed lack DPS skills, and our variety only comes in terms of healing; therefore, when downtime from needing to heal occurs, which is very often, there's little to no variety. As a result, since that downtime only ever gets larger, it means that we, as healers, are less engaged. The simpler the content, the more this is exacerbated.

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...confused. I addressed the issue yet Im dancing around it? Doesnt quite make sense unless your taking the Boldened "Main Role" part to seriously.
Or something..lol. But no I get it which is why I mentioned it, there is a lack of options. Or is the argument that the content is just to easy therefor being a healer has to much downtime? Which at times I can also agree on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

For God's sake, we fire off more of our bog-standard dps spell than tanks and even a few melee classes can auto attack, how can anyone look at that and think "man, healer combat must be so exciting!". What, do you think spot healing Lil' Timmy after he stubbed his toe on an aoe with a 7 second indicator or throwing out a fire-and-forget barrier/regen for a heavily telegraphed raid-wide makes up for the fact that our "rotation" is absolute dog water?

Or maybe you're unaware of the fact that every healer (except WHM lol) is so full of healing/mitigation abilities with negligible to non-existent costs that you can easily go through an entire encounter without having to cast a single healing GCD?

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Coming in Hot XD Not arguing about Rotation, just the idea that only 1 button is pressed as a healer....when I press more then 1 button. So its like, whats going on.
I guess I am unaware lol But Ive never been in a fight where not once Ive had to use a Heal.
No idea if its a Me Problem or my team sucks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

This is a semanthics nitpick.

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Lol all Im saying is it sounds weird that people say you only press 1 button as a healer. When my experience as a healer sounds very different.
I dont disagree with and I support the idea of Healers being more engaging, or at least the content could spruce up abit to make healing abit more urgent

Sometimes I fire off Pneuma just to see the GIANT LAZOR animation.
Just to remember that it's there...

Playing Healer through MSQ makes people quit the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hazama999

Sometimes I fire off Pneuma just to see the GIANT LAZOR animation.
Just to remember that it's there...

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Sucks when you have spell effects turned off because everything is so damn explosion-y

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Sucks when you have spell effects turned off because everything is so damn explosion-y

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Oh yeah. Explosions go BRRR in the way Misery does. The question though is how long have we been in this echo chamber for? 9 Months. 9 Months worth of feedback and annoyance from healers. 9 Months of echoing the same issues since Yoshida actually said the wrong thing to healers. What's worse is that they've still yet to come to terms about it, and haven't done crap. How long do we have to keep yelling on the Forums before we actually get some damn change?

We've been complaining about it since Shadowbringers. They brushed us off by ignoring Healer Questions. Then, in this expac, they tell us to go play Ultimate - the very purpose of this thread to highlight the issue that enflamed the healer community. Why is it so difficult to listen to healers concerns? Is it because you're worried about speaking about a job at length during a live stream to thousands of viewers who are watching, potentially healers and players? Are you worried about backlash(which mind you, this backlash has been left and right this expansion with Healers) and saying the wrong thing again like you did? People are going to get tired of complaining eventually because at some point, people will just stop playing Healer altogether for some reason or another, citing various reasons that have been explained throughout this thread.

- "It's boring."
- "There's nothing to heal and I'm tired of pressing the same button."
- "It's not fun compared to the other roles."

Just to note a few responses I've gotten in the past month when I've asked about healers to friends and raid mates. I don't know how it's perceived on the JP side or EU side, but I'm considering going to stare at it so I can understand their viewpoint as well for a larger world view; especially since changes affect everyone who plays. Because here in NA, Healer input doesn't mean crap.

While I have been defeatist for the majority of my rant, I will say this: Continue to hold the discussion and keep the thread active. It took DRK about 6 F***ING YEARS to finally have its issues addressed - I hope to god we don't have to wait that long for healers. All we can do is keep the pressure on them and keep the thread going for as long as it takes with constructive feedback.

Hell, if they'd be bothered to I'd like it if they could actually allow a real Healer Main in the influencers since apparently that's part of who they only listen to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Sucks when you have spell effects turned off because everything is so damn explosion-y

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I keep all effects on all the time for everyone...

Helps keep your eyes sharp to catch details. Especially when doing 24 player raids, super fates, and the eureka/bozja stuff when it was new...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

I'd prefer not to waste my time with something that offers almost no value to me for the matter at hand, but you can go ahead and enjoy reveling in it.

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Don't bother with FireMage. You're playing chess and he replaced his pieces with checkers pieces. He is also a pigeon who structs on the board, casually knocks over your king even though he isn't playing, craps on the board, then claims he is a chess master.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

I'd prefer not to waste my time with something that offers almost no value to me for the matter at hand, but you can go ahead and enjoy reveling in it.

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The only 2 reasons to clear a savage tier on content:

1) clearing it because its the peak of your gameplay

2) we fuckin doin some ultimate

if you dont care about either, theres no need to worry about clear on content

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Don't bother with FireMage. You're playing chess and he replaced his pieces with checkers pieces. He is also a pigeon who structs on the board, casually knocks over your king even though he isn't playing, craps on the board, then claims he is a chess master.

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Oh look, another player that can't do high end content and thus has no place in this topic. Dismissed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

The only 2 reasons to clear a savage tier on content:

1) clearing it because its the peak of your gameplay

2) we fuckin doin some ultimate

if you dont care about either, theres no need to worry about clear on content

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There's more than 2 reasons to clear a Savage Tier. I had a person in my static who literally did it on content for the Fending Coat that dropped from E12S; that we worked hard for. People have all sorts of reasons for doing Savage, even if it's for glamour, to prove themselves, or simply experience it.

here is the thing i notice about the aoe argument back in hw you had the following

whm asize, holy and aero 3 , sch had bane ,shadow flare ,miasma 2 and ast just had gravity. At the time whm and sch had more things to work with that made more interesting during mobs

during single encounters whm had access to all the aeros and asize while as sch had shadow flare, bio miasma 1 & 2 and aero 1.

during those you had to maintain 3 dots respectfully now as the current state of healing you have one dot for all healers & one main attack , sch and whm lost there aoe dots (they could had just made it into a trait to where as glare could had been a aoe dot next to the holy spam or made miasma spread when using the art of war or something or do how the pvp works but thats not going to happen).

The fact that you just spam one attack even in normal content its just meh spamming one aoe is just meh.

I do understand that people like this version of healing, but however those said people either delete there posts because they dont have enough experience or they cant take the criticism

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

There's more than 2 reasons to clear a Savage Tier. I had a person in my static who literally did it on content for the Fending Coat that dropped from E12S; that we worked hard for. People have all sorts of reasons for doing Savage, even if it's for glamour, to prove themselves, or simply experience it.

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The number of people outside of those two catagories are so few i could consider them exceptionally niche

they exist, but i think that 95% of the playerbase engaging with savage are in it for the two reasons i listed

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Originally Posted by Axxion

during single encounters whm had access to all the aeros and asize while as sch had shadow flare, bio miasma 1 & 2 and aero 1.

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And back then, we were fine. We had Miasma 1, Miasma 2, we had Shadowflare, aero if required and we had two fairies.

I won't say it wasn't clunky. It for sure required some attention. But holy hell, there was far more to do on healers than just healing. We contributed, we had utility... And I know what many people here say. "If you wanted something more than healing on a healer, go play a DPS". But those are the people who need to take a hard look at FF14's design. I wouldn't mind a pure healer with virtually no DPS whatsoever... if healing was at all this required.

It isn't. Even on Ultimates the goal of healers, apart from keeping people alive, is to find a way to minimize how much healing you will throw out. And even when it is, healing in this game is ludicrously generic. Meaning either way people are going to be bored.

We did fine when we had more things to do and take care of. A lot of the issues came from really awkward design and the poor paradigm we had before. Again, it was clunky. imo as cool as Cleric Stance used to be, it is the quintessential representation of the problem the old system had. That it was awkward and you lost massively in having healers needing to choose between DPS and Healing.

Healing is the primary focus of the role. More than any other role (yes tanks, even you, what WAR can do in dungeons should not be a thing). But that doesn't mean it has to be the only thing the jobs in the role have to do. It's fine to have utility, it's fine to deal damage. As long as it doesn't get in the way of healing, it is fine. And as it stands, we have so many healing skills and far too little else to the point where the healing aspect of healers is so dominant. So dominant, in fact, most skills are either repetitive, recycled or become unnecessary.

Meaning there's far too much focus on the healing aspect. Even reiterating that that's what the role is meant to do. Because there's too much focus on it when we have skills that suffice to satisfy the requirement. And the overdone focus on it causes button bloat and monotony even among healing skills.

What healers need isn't just "more to do outside of healing". It can be support, it can be DPS. But I'd argue that we also need some out-of-the-box design. And this one is going to be a personal comment, but while SCH, SGE and WHM have one or two skills that are clevery made, I feel like AST is the one who has the most interestingly-designed skills... issue is, on AST I also feel like there's far too much. It's cool to have nuance and cleverness, but what good is it when the kit is only fully used in 1% of content?

Soo... yeah. For people who clutch their pearls at the thought of "more to healers", we dealt with it just fine back then. And the issues that once plagued us not only no longer exist, but also don't need to exist any further. The dev team has evolved past those and learned. Meaning it's 100% possible to have that nuance and that "more to do" that we had in the current system. And boy do we need it.

Otherwise, what? We're going to get another regurgitated Cure 2 variant for lv 100? Thrilling.

The game doesn't have anything that needs a "Mini Healer" clone where you do nothing but healing. But even Mini Healer had fun healing skills in comparison to 14.