SE, the concept of "Limited Jobs" is a really bad idea, turn back now

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Originally Posted by Oreos

People really need to stop giving the "limited resources" argument. SE is a multi-million dollar company that has been in the gaming industry for decades. 14 is one of their most profitable games EVER. They are not some ragtag team of indie devs looking to break into the market with a few thousand bucks and a dream.

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Though, to be fair, it is a legitimate argument.

Since, while SE is a large business and FFXIV is very profitable... SE doesn't actually reinvest the majority of the money made by XIV back into the game, instead preferring to use it on other titles instead.

Thus, the XIV team is quite limited in what money and how big a team they have access to. Despite the profitability of the game.

Personally, I'm hoping that if ShB is a success and the playerbase continues to grow, that Yoshida can convince the higher ups that investing more into XIV is worthwhile, to further increase profits (While, letting him and his team make what they want to make as opposed to having to cut lots of corners and disappointing the players when certain things get cut or have limited development *Cough*BLU*Cough*Genderlocks*Cough*)

I agree with OP, the concept of limited jobs is a terrible idea.

Blue Mage worked perfectly in FF11, it literally has the same system as it does in FF14 learn skills/spells from monsters and only a few from levelling. All they would need to do is balance out the job so it fits with the rest of the other jobs and not be too overpowered etc it worked in FF11 why can't they do the same for FF14?

I also have no motivation to lv BLU as is so it needs changing it's also just a waste of time adding anymore limited jobs like it, I rather not see them as I have zero interest in them.

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Originally Posted by ZellosWilder

I agree with OP, the concept of limited jobs is a terrible idea.

Blue Mage worked perfectly in FF11, it literally has the same system as it does in FF14 learn skills/spells from monsters and only a few from levelling. All they would need to do is balance out the job so it fits with the rest of the other jobs and not be too overpowered etc it worked in FF11 why can't they do the same for FF14?

I also have no motivation to lv BLU as is so it needs changing it's also just a waste of time adding anymore limited jobs like it, I rather not see them as I have zero interest in them.

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11 is fundamentally a different design than 14. The type of ways blue messes with the 14s paradigms, would not be a problem in 11


1)14 expects all skills/abilities/powers of a job to come from leveling, and you can reasl\onably expect that most people of a certain level have the same tools. This is not the case in FF11 which had a much more varied system. Summoners, blue mages, Beastmasters had widely different skills sets based on what the player unlocked.


2)14 has an extremely narrow job system where every job breaks down in to tank/dps/healer. Which is pretty enforced. 11 has tons of hybrids, and jobs that can vary greatly based on equipment. I could tank on monk with a warrior subjob. Summoners would heal with whm subjobs. Beastmaster played alone. Ninja was dps or tank depending on how it geared.


3) Overall 11 had less rules, and less expectations for a party, you could play with 4 people, or 6 people. you could have millions in gear at level 25, or have junk. This game is way more regimented, and thats why limited jobs are probably needed if you want to have anything that is even slightly outside the box.




Fact is blue mage could only exist in FFXIV by not being blue mage. It would have to give up player hunted skills (the core of blue mage) versatility (common trait of blue mage) and most of its iconic skills (signature of blue mage)


Its not that these things are impossible to put in FFXIV world, but rather they do not fit into their overall streamlined design of what a job is, and whats its purpose is. In FFXIV jobs are designed to be DPS Healer or TANK specifically in instanced content, with most balance/game design focused on 4 man and 8 man parties. Thats it, its a very small box.

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Originally Posted by Physic

Fact is blue mage could only exist in FFXIV by not being blue mage. It would have to give up player hunted skills (the core of blue mage) versatility (common trait of blue mage) and most of its iconic skills (signature of blue mage)


Its not that these things are impossible to put in FFXIV world, but rather they do not fit into their overall streamlined design of what a job is, and whats its purpose is. In FFXIV jobs are designed to be DPS Healer or TANK specifically in instanced content, with most balance/game design focused on 4 man and 8 man parties. Thats it, its a very small box.

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Not disagreeing that straight up porting FFXI's into FFXIV would work in multiplayer without lots and lots of bumps but.. it is not a fact that Blue mage can only exist in FFXIV by not being a Blue Mage.

Learning spells does not need to dismiss Blue Mage from being part of group content. Versatility is not exclusive to Blue Mage in any of the series Blue Mage has existed, being weird is more their trait than versatility. Only because of FFXI do we think about slotting skills in and out. In any game that Blue Mage existed with lots of spells so did other jobs.

Lots of spells != blue mage exclusive idea. Pretty much all jobs share this in any game that comes with jobs.
Lots of options != blue mage exclusive idea. Pretty much all jobs share this in any game that comes with jobs. Although Blue Mage tends to be a bit more inconsistent (like summoner), if you consider that a feature lol. But in terms of options there are a lot of jobs and cases where other non-blue mages come with a truck load of tools.
Learning from monsters = blue mage.

Iconic spells probably being the hardest thing to make work, but is something true for all of our jobs. I believe SE could just make clever changes to the concept that keeps them similar still, like they do already. Some quick not so clever examples: Death could perhaps be on a Hallowed Ground cooldown, that straight up kills a 50% hp monster or deals extreme potency damage to a boss. Petrify could be a type of stun on trash that doesn't cause stun resistance and applies fragility on all targets including bosses (increases damage slightly, can also combo into another spell that uses fragility debuff).

In that I think either our current jobs can't be considered true to their nature, like Paladin, White Mage, Black Mage, Etc, or that Blue Mage could be Blue Mage and also be in Duty Finder content. Of course imo I'm for the later, I do think Paladin is Paladin and White Mage is White Mage (even though they don't have X OP spell or Y OP spell behaving exactly the same).

On top of the idea that the only core part of blue mage is collecting abilities (but not how many) most people's ideas here simple to complex have all kept that limited side of Blue Mage intact (and kept an eye on balance for the DF so it isn't utter madness, like FFXI straight port would probably be). There are differences in level of control SE would have with each idea but I've read a lot of these threads and most of them include ways for SE to have strong control over balance (so it isn't impossible to keep Blue Mage in check).

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Originally Posted by ZellosWilder

Blue Mage worked perfectly in FF11, it literally has the same system as it does in FF14 learn skills/spells from monsters and only a few from levelling.

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Why not play it in FF11 then? Not trying to troll, I genuinely mean it. If my favourite job or playstyle was implemented "perfectly" in another game, I'd probably play that game.

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Originally Posted by K3KW4RCHILD

You know what's a bad idea? Mahjong... but it's here to stay. Just sayin'.

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Mahjong is still fairly popular and I'd much rather have that over verminion, blitzball or most other things for that matter. In fact if it were up to me that viera money could've easily been invested in more Mahjong. You not enjoying it doesn't make it a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Physic

Fact is blue mage could only exist in FFXIV by not being blue mage.

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I disagree.

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Originally Posted by Physic

It would have to give up player hunted skills (the core of blue mage)

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Not necessarily.

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Originally Posted by Physic

versatility (common trait of blue mage)

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Not necessarily.

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Originally Posted by Physic

and most of its iconic skills (signature of blue mage)

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Not at all.

It's very narrow minded to just outright dismiss things that aren't carbon copies of existing jobs in every way.

There are numerous ways to implement BLU into XIV while keeping its identity intact, which have been proposed by numerous people across numerous threads.

BLU hunting skills? Easy. You can still build a proper kit that players are expected to have by using auto-learned skills, skills given by job quests (Either learned during the course of the quest or as a Whalaqee Totem in the reward), skills that gate content (Such as how you Martyn says "Come speak to me when you've learned X skill" when you are doing the current BLU job quests).

With excess skills being ones you manually go and hunt down and aren't necessary for the balance of the job.

Given the myriad of ways that BLU's have learned their skills in previous iterations of the game, it's quite ridiculous to claim that it would be impossible to give people "Core" skills on a platter while leaving the "Hunting" aspect where you go out and find specific mobs (Usually done in previous games for completionist reasons rather than actually needing every skill in the game) as a side content.

Versatility? Only if you are thinking that BLU is only BLU if it can be a Tank/Healer/DPS. Which not all iterations of BLU have been. Many have been supportive damage dealers (Using buffs, debuffs and damaging magics), which fits in alongside BRD/RDM/SMN and likely DNC.

Iconic skills? Most can be easily added to the game (Goblin Punch, Aqua Breath etc) some just need minor alterations (Shockwave Pulsar, Matra Magic and ???? dealing a normal amount of potency. White Wind having a cooldown and/or functioning like Quina's version which is 1/3 max HP which is about the strength of a healers AoE heal currently) while the rest can simply be restricted from use in actual content and left for memeing in unsync'd content (Doom, Missiles, Limit Glove, Roulette, Lvl? Death, Frog Drop) like they pretty much already are (Most bosses being immune to insta-kill effects like Doom, Tail Screw and Missiles)

We've been over this Physic.

They could have done whatever they wanted with BLU and it would have worked precisely because it's a job that could have worked either way. If they made Red Mage fit, they could have done the same for our beloved Blue Mage, full stop.
Identity is a really poor excuse when what defines BLU is only the fact that they get the skills from monsters and use it under variations of magix considered "Blue".
Could have only allowed DPS abilities with the one "iconic" spell on a big CD White Wind, Red Mages are DPS and get Raise and Cure + Dualcast.
Could have been a mage tank if they wanted.

That's how versatile BLU is. And it would have been fine to pick one of the routes and stick with it.

For the "limited jobs" i'll just go with the Miyazaki meme:

"Limited jobs were a mistake"

Limited jobs, I think are okay for that mini game aspect though I believe SE could and should develop Blue Mage into a full job. Keep the limited aspect as an optional mini game. Performance for bard is something I see in the same vein as the limited part of Blue Mage. Perhaps they can develop something like that for the other jobs too.

Just read OP’s thoughts on Page 1. Square Enix doesn’t really care for our opinions very much, honestly I feel they only have a forum so they don’t receive backlash. Idk, they just kind of strike me as a company that just kind of does what it wants, and people buy it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Anesteria

We've been over this Physic.

They could have done whatever they wanted with BLU and it would have worked precisely because it's a job that could have worked either way. If they made Red Mage fit, they could have done the same for our beloved Blue Mage, full stop.
Identity is a really poor excuse when what defines BLU is only the fact that they get the skills from monsters and use it under variations of magix considered "Blue".
Could have only allowed DPS abilities with the one "iconic" spell on a big CD White Wind, Red Mages are DPS and get Raise and Cure + Dualcast.
Could have been a mage tank if they wanted.

That's how versatile BLU is. And it would have been fine to pick one of the routes and stick with it.

For the "limited jobs" i'll just go with the Miyazaki meme:

"Limited jobs were a mistake"

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No don't you see! the fact that blue mage historically can learn it's skills outside of order and outside of leveling means it just outright can't work in XIV! why can't you understand this is how blue mage was MEANT to be in XIV and that there is absolutely no legroom to change that without it being not blue mage!!!!