Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

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Originally Posted by van_arn

This is the official forums, where it's mean to expect higher than autoattack-tier damage because pushing buttons is elitist.

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The opposite is also true. I have seen in many threads a lot of people acting as if it's perfectly acceptable to instantly kick people for daring to be only average in non-savage content. A lot of opinions regarding player performance are quite extreme on both ends. This is why the debates tend to get very heated.

I dunno I'm starting to see new tanks get the "WoW" treatment in some of the lvl 25 Main quest scenarios. To quote a friend. "If I'm going to get called names every time I group I just won't bother" It's odd seeing toxicity rear it's ugly head in FFXIV, it's definitely different than it was.

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Originally Posted by Jett-Rinn

I dunno I'm starting to see new tanks get the "WoW" treatment in some of the lvl 25 Main quest scenarios. To quote a friend. "If I'm going to get called names every time I group I just won't bother" It's odd seeing toxicity rear it's ugly head in FFXIV, it's definitely different than it was.

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Toxicity has always existed in FF XIV. So long as there are people, there is always going to be toxicity. Nothing has changed. I do think it's being blown way out of proportion though. Seriously, it's not as bad as you, or others make it out to be. Some people also need to take a look and think "maybe it's not other people, it's me". It doesn't happen consistently for no reason. Calling someone names isn't something I can condone, but if there's hostility whenever there's a particular person present more often than not...I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's the person claiming to be the victim which is the root of the issue, whether it's their general attitude or their lack of skill. Both of which can be fixed, in theory.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Toxicity has always existed in FF XIV. So long as there are people, there is always going to be toxicity. Nothing has changed. I do think it's being blown way out of proportion though. Seriously, it's not as bad as you, or others make it out to be. Some people also need to take a look and think "maybe it's not other people, it's me". It doesn't happen consistently for no reason. Calling someone names isn't something I can condone, but if there's hostility whenever there's a particular person present more often than not...I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's the person claiming to be the victim which is the root of the issue, whether it's their general attitude or their lack of skill. Both of which can be fixed.

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So Blame the victim....gotcha. Sorry, I don't roll that way and I think folks that do should just stick with their FC instead of playing task master of Duty Finder.

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Originally Posted by Jett-Rinn

So Blame the victim....gotcha. Sorry, I don't roll that way and I think folks that do should just stick with their FC instead of playing task master of Duty Finder.

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That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that if there's a pattern it's pretty hard to ignore. Your response is rather hypocritical considering your stance on toxicity. I hope there's not a pattern here.

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Originally Posted by Jett-Rinn

So Blame the victim....gotcha. Sorry, I don't roll that way and I think folks that do should just stick with their FC instead of playing task master of Duty Finder.

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Right because the person who's being named called is always 100% not to be blamed or didn't start anything. Vahlnir said that sometimes it can be the person who is getting the hostility might be the cause of it. Not that it always is.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Right because the person who's being named called is always 100% not to be blamed or didn't start anything. Vahlnir said that sometimes it can be the person who is getting the hostility might be the cause of it. Not that it always is.

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Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that if there's a pattern it's pretty hard to ignore. Your response is rather hypocritical considering your stance on toxicity. I hope there's not a pattern here.

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Honestly not trying to be hypocritical, but try to understand the frustration when a current player builds up a game to have the exact opposite type of community as your average Raid or die MMO to a new player, then before the new person even hits 35, they get slammed and vote kicked multiple times (which unless someone is afk or being harassing is against the rules) for not knowing every single aspect of a fight and even told the group they are new.

A person who could have ended up being a decent player logs out and logs back into the other MMO she was playing because the devil you know is sometimes better than the devil you don't.

But before they leave they point out the 1700 post thread on this forum where the vets are literally slamming all the "bads" they have to endure.

And no it wasn't really like that a couple years back. I'm not saying that anyone on this thread is guilty of that, but it is happening and in every MMo I have played that adopts this attitude, a reduced player base isn't far behind.

That's my two cents on it.

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Originally Posted by Jett-Rinn

Honestly not trying to be hypocritical, but try to understand the frustration when a current player builds up a game to have the exact opposite type of community as your average Raid or die MMO to a new player, then before the new person even hits 35, they get slammed and vote kicked multiple times (which unless someone is afk or being harassing is against the rules) for not knowing every single aspect of a fight and even told the group they are new.

A person who could have ended up being a decent player logs out and logs back into the other MMO she was playing because the devil you know is sometimes better than the devil you don't.

But before they leave they point out the 1700 post thread on this forum where the vets are literally slamming all the "bads" they have to endure.

And no it wasn't really like that a couple years back. I'm not saying that anyone on this thread is guilty of that, but it is happening and in every MMo I have played that adopts this attitude, a reduced player base isn't far behind.

That's my two cents on it.

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I respect your opinion, but a "toxic" atmosphere isn't typically responsible for a game's decline. I still don't believe this game is there yet. What's usually responsible is a rift that grows between the players, the devs and the company in charge of a game as the quality and quantity begin to...degrade. This has been very much the case with WoW as a more recent example.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I respect your opinion, but a "toxic" atmosphere isn't typically responsible for a game's decline. I still don't believe this game is there yet. What's usually responsible is a rift that grows between the players, the devs and the company in charge of a game as the quality and quantity begin to...degrade. This has been very much the case with WoW as a more recent example.

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Speaking as someone who quit WoW after ten years, I'm not disagreeing with you, but the toxicity of the community there was a contributing factor to why I quit. My main reason was of course, as you say, the rift between the players and the company. But I'd be lying if I said that FFXIV's much calmer community wasn't a welcome change and surprise that made it easier to leave WoW behind.

Before I quit WoW I stepped down from hardcore raiding and played casually, and the toxicity I encountered in lvling content was sometimes awful. I got harassed in a lvl 60 dungeon because I was playing a dwarf warlock. They laughed at me because I was supposedly a noob for not playing as a human or gnome. And no they didn't stop when I explained it was only an alt to have a bit of fun. I saw a tank get mocked for being bad simply because he didn't want to chain pull while the healer was afk. A dps pulled, it caused a wipe and they blamed it on the tank for not reacting fast enough. I could go on like this for a while. Of course not every dungeon was as dramatic as this but it wasn't a rare occurrence to see some completely needless and downright mean comments in casual content. Never mind all the stuff I saw as a hardcore raider.

These experiences with toxicity didn't make me quit WoW, but my god they made it easier to.