Bard - they broke my job

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and personally, I'm quite happy with how WM is now and I get a DPS increase from it on each fight I use it on, I assure you I'm not just bad with it off because it kinda makes zero sense for it to be a consistent boost for me when WM-OFF was how I played the job for two years. I'm not gonna complain about buffs; but the thing is, people here are acting like WM is the sole problem or that the new skills every other DPS was given, are the reason that they do 250-400 DPS more than BRD rather than ~100 pre-xpac. The core thing people are forgetting is that melee scale very well. We have SS, but that's crit, every other job either(or both) smashes out higher potency or they have skills that scale extremely well such as HT+Disemb or MNK's insane amount of full uptime self-buffs, while BRD's dps is great with CDs it completely falls off past that point and so it just doesn't scale very well. I feel that it's an issue with the core of the job, rather than the new expansion skills and WM alone.

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Originally Posted by aabe

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To make it sound a bit simpler, try parsing a dummy with WM off. I'll assume most people here are in the 750-840 region with a no-wm no-pots no-food dummy parse. Autos should be doing around 140 (lol det nerf)
at a good ilvl, so take that away. 610-700, now if you want to be put up to what is relatively where BRD was pre-expansion, say 100-150 behind your melee depending on DRG or not, you're basically asking that these few skills give you an upwards of like an 80% DPS increase if you really want to be up to a good relative spot compared to 2.x

My real issue with BRD right now is how far they've fallen behind due to scaling, but I really don't think the solution is to just stack more bonus damage onto WM until the job is back up to par.

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Originally Posted by aabe

To make it sound a bit simpler, try parsing a dummy with WM off. I'll assume most people here are in the 750-840 region with a no-wm no-pots no-food dummy parse. Autos should be doing around 140 (lol det nerf)
at a good ilvl, so take that away. 610-700, now if you want to be put up to what is relatively where BRD was pre-expansion, say 100-150 behind your melee depending on DRG or not, you're basically asking that these few skills give you an upwards of like an 80% DPS increase if you really want to be up to a good relative spot compared to 2.x

My real issue with BRD right now is how far they've fallen behind due to scaling, but I really don't think the solution is to just stack more bonus damage onto WM until the job is back up to par.

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You can't just say take out auto attacks and chop off 100~150 DPS. You still have to calculate empyreal arrow (barrage makes it just that much stronger) and iron jaws, along with the 20% boost to everything. Given, in mobile fights WM might be a DPS loss, but its not 100~150.

ohohoho this is gonna be great day cause we got some very clueless ppl running around again

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Originally Posted by Duelle

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they can maybe move while casting but they then again can/should not as MM (buff/ainmed) and as SV (focusing shot) so yes it is very much the same as bard in termes of playstyle also i wasnt talking dmg here cause if bard had hunter dmg noone would complain. to talk about things that were promised give me some examples plz cause i got what was promised and still wasnt very happy.

good thats done now back to the topic at hand:

could someone with full equip do some parsing on the first boss in The Fractal Continuum plz i find this boss to be a good example on u got some standing and movement time without it beeing to hard to manage i think we can get good values out of him. ill do it myself on the weekend cause my equip isnt maxed out yet. so if anyone can do it earlyer plz be so kind that way we can get awy from useless dumy posts

Hope they fix my loved bard, by now I lost completely my will to play as DPS...
Almost 250 days playing (/playtime), and everthing is gone in just one sec @ lvl 52 =/

We were 100-150 dps behind other DPS if everyone was playing correctly. If everyone had their dps increased due to level and item lvl increase I think 900 is still the same as before. The damage ratio remained the same while the raw DPS increased.

The real problem thought from my point of view is that we shouldn't be parsing lower than blackmages or at least not 10% less. It might not be the same in other MMO but who cares its FFXIV. If you're cutting us off our feet at least make it so we can get the same DPS as the others.

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Originally Posted by aabe

I'd honestly have what is more of a reactionary/planned out rotation than a very cut and dry (more or less this, every job has situational things ofc) "keep up your dots, keep up SS and hit the proc, keep everything else on CD at all times" and that's about all the advice you need to get surprisingly close to the skill cap on pre-3.0 BRD.

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... how's that any easier than what you do in WM? How's that any easier than hitting a sequence of buttons in order for that matter, the basic rotation for most dps?

Here's the only difference. WM has turned BRD into a caster. That's it.

If you like being a caster you'll like the new crappy BRD.

If you never wanted to be a caster the last two years of gameplay have effectively been crapped on by SE.

So congratulations you happen to be a BRD who enjoys being a caster. That is good to know.

For the rest of us though, this really, really, really sucks.

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Originally Posted by Croisciento

We were 100-150 dps behind other DPS if everyone was playing correctly. If everyone had their dps increased due to level and item lvl increase I think 900 is still the same as before. The damage ratio remained the same while the raw DPS increased.

The real problem thought from my point of view is that we shouldn't be parsing lower than blackmages or at least not 10% less. It might not be the same in other MMO but who cares its FFXIV. If you're cutting us off our feet at least make it so we can get the same DPS as the others.

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Only it isn't the same.
We were around 16% behind before we are about 25% behind now.

And to actually do this we have to be in a stance that sacrifices the whole reason that BRD was behind in dps to begin with which was our mobility, not having to compromise rotation and never disconnect from target.

So Now you do less dps and loose the positive parts of BRD to actually do the lower dps...

I'm not sure how this makes sense to any person to begin with.

But then there's the actual non streamlined gameplay that comes with activating WM even if you don't count the loss of mobility.

Honestly.. If I am forced to be a caster.. I may well just drop bard.. and go summoner... cause.. why not play a 'real' caster instead of the product of SE's lazyness and short sightedness?

Auto attacks, movement, cast times, GCD clipping, all of this stuff can easily be compensated for in rebalancing. I really wish people would quit bringing it up when we already have Devs confirming that they're working on changing it.

I think the changes were made in the first place because they do not like the idea of 2.0 bards being competitive DPS. Just giving them more skills to press when they're up and increasing some base power MAY make them competitive, but if thats all 3.0 bard was going to be, i never would have bothered playing the class again.

As it were, it was a mechanic-empty class, it got to ignore most of the stuff in fights because there's zero risk involved in playing 2.0 Bard. If short cast times are what it takes to add some more interesting gameplay to the class, i really don't care. It's nice to be able to derp around and spam attacks and occasionally sing when your party needs it, but that kind of boring gameplay is why i stopped maining bard in the first place.