Bring Back Kaiten

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Originally Posted by Carighan

But that's the thing, the vast majority are. The majority of 1-2-3 combos for example have no reason to exist.

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They do as long as you're punished for not using them. And so long as console remains without access to xivcombo and xivcombo remains against ToS, we will be.

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They could be cleanly replaced with a single button that... <snip>. The combo is purely cosmetic, to support 3 different animations despite factually only having a single gameplay effect.

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It would be... if you actually made that change. But that change hasn't been made.

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I get what you mean, but what you describe as the bad hypothetical case is what we have.

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It's not. You're describing something with zero fail state and without even the ability to take on choice rather than simply lacking it in the content presently given. We don't have that, thankfully. Not quite.

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It's a simple rote memorization thing, not actual interaction or agency.

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And yet, so long as you're not the perfect cyborg computer, choosing what to risk drifting on for the simple fact that at some point you are almost certainly going to mess up on your execution of that rote-ly memorized thing in context still offers interaction and agency.

It could be better, aye, but for 99.9% of players it is still very much something.

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I should add, I think the idea behind Kaiten or something akin to it is pretty damn cool, but it's previous incarnation is no better (but also no worse) than the replacement. Neither offers gameplay worth mentioning, in fact I'd argue neither are worse a hotbar spot and the whole gauge of Samurai serves no purpose and could be cleanly removed.

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I disagree, for the simple fact that it'd be yet more dull without them than with.

Would I rehaul the job from scratch for greater cognitive load and button-density, both, if I had some dictatorial turn at the wheel? Absolutely. But I also wouldn't want to ignore that the simple rhythmic fun of APM and having to swap between buttons, sometimes hitting certain actions asap while holding others until just .5s + ping before the next GCD, all while executing mechanics perfectly, is also fun for seemingly a majority of players. Even if that cognitive load would add the keys and riffs of a certain job, it'd be the latter that adds provides the ear candy or by whatever other means brings the arrangement and mixing together, so to speak.

I miss you, Kaiten. Let me hear your sweet sound once more...

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Originally Posted by TheGrimace

I miss you, Kaiten. Let me hear your sweet sound once more...

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*whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh CHIIIING!*

but back to the topic, I just did a dungeon as lvl100 SAM, did a 100k+ Crit with Tendo Setsugekka and I felt nothing.

I wish I was able to influence my Damage Output with my Resources that I have beyond Spamming Shinten and looking at 20 Kenki as a Reminder to the Good Ol'days.

now thinking about Ikishoten and Shoha again.
If Ikishoten would turn Shinten into Sen'ei (and Kyuten into Guren) you would never accidently miss another Sen'ei/Guren ever again.

As for Shoha, with The Line AoE Shoha the Samurai is locked out of certain situtations to use Shoha Now. Main Example be the Drake Family Secret in Sil'die and yes this is just side content but still, nuanced Kits allow nuanced Challenges. So yes, Shoha II (Mumyo Shoha) should return aswell, though I like the New Shoha Animation, so how to address that? Simple, turn Shoha I into a Ranged Attack, that way it's still single target and make sense throwing those shockwaves.

As for Kaiten being a dps loss, idc, then they should boost the direct hit buff from Kaiten.
I want to utilize Kenki to boost my Weaponskills instead of having nothing else for Kenki but Burst.. or in other words I want Kenki to support the Burst instead of being just Burst only.

And Also, Cone Tenka with Target Requirement should returns aswell
Or just scrap Kenki altogether and make Tsubamegaeshi the lvl52 Skill :/

for me, The Samurai is the embodiment of the Fantasy of a Swordmaster, who becomes one with the Battlefield by having total control about what they can achieve while showcasing a Masterful display of the Way of the Sword.

In Gameplay the Samurai's Kit is about Discovery and Mastery (or at least it supposed/used to be). What do I mean with this? The Samurai should have the option to decide what to do, not just to attack or not but also what to hit or not. Practicly, you're in an Single Target Situation, you do the Single Target Skill and when you're in an AoE Situation, you use the AoE Skill.

Endwalker Launch Samurai perfectly depicted that Fantasy of Discovery and Mastery
mastering Shinten and Kyuten,
Sen'ei and Guren,
aswell as Shoha and Mumyo Shoha
and discovering Ogi Namikiri as Double Slice Buster Conal Attack.

Dawntrail ruined that. Shoha is Geirskogul Now with no nuance or option and Ogi Namikiri is still old Ogi Namikiri with no Single Target Counterpart.. which could've been Cloud's Cross Slash btw! but no.

and how does Kaiten play in all of this? well Kaiten is the Mastery over all Weaponskills of the Samurai, especially Iaijutsu.

Now with my Point of View of how the Samurai of FFXIV should work, what would my Dawntrail Samurai look like?

First off Kaiten would've returned at lvl52 and would've gotten the Tendo Buff on lvl100 instead of Meikyo Shisui.

Cone Tenka Goken would've returned.

Mumyo Shoha would've returned and the First Shoha would've gotten an Ranged Attack Perk, because even though I hate Line AoE Shoha, I love the Animation turning Shoha into a Ranged Attack is the Best of Both Worlds because that way we can keep the cool animation while being true to Shoha's Original Design. +Come on! charging up targetted Shockwave directly to display Sword Mastery is just amazing! Compared to Geirskogul on Samurai.

Ikishoten would've turned Shinten into Sen'ei and Kyuten into Guren

Ogi Namikiri would've shared it's Cool Down with a Single Target Alternative, mastering the Ogi Technique.

about Zanshin.. honestly idk, I would categorize Zanshin as Discovery Skill, means 8.0 would add an Single Target Variant and we're good. Though! I would remove the Kenki Cost of Zanshin since Zanshin already requires Zanshin Ready to work, so it eating up Ikishoten's Kenki boost is redundant.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

for me, The Samurai is the embodiment of the Fantasy of a Swordmaster, who becomes one with the Battlefield by having total control about what they can achieve while showcasing a Masterful display of the Way of the Sword.

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Having above average versatility that, with enough skill, can allow many meaningful outs that can coalesce into some manner of counterstrategy can therefore be an identity, but... actual "total control"??? What would that even mean? And why would "total control over what [it] can achieve" be more appropriate for a Samurai than for a Monk or Ninja?

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Dawntrail ruined that. Shoha is Geirskogul Now with no nuance or option

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The "nuance", small thought it be, is in positioning relative to your target to hit the other enemies and in choosing who to deal the greater focus damage to... which is no less than a AoE-Shoha would offer if it dealt exactly half damage (since you could choose between splitting the damage evenly or focusing one) and more than an AoE Shoha if would offer if it dealt between 34 and 49% damage (since then the only skill expression would be in counting to three (3) -- THREE ENEMIES).

https://static.pbslearningmedia.org/...66_lS01Vp2.jpg

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Ogi Namikiri is still old Ogi Namikiri with no Single Target Counterpart

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Because it doesn't need one. It has it. On your primary target. The AoE version (40% weaker) is then dealt to everyone else.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

I would remove the Kenki Cost of Zanshin since Zanshin already requires Zanshin Ready to work, so it eating up Ikishoten's Kenki boost is redundant.

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Yeah, that's fair.

Samurai just feels so bad to play without Kaiten... all of it's weaponskills that COULD have been powered by Kaiten just feels like you you hitting enemies with a wet noodle without Kaiten... and having Kaiten on Samurai could have been SO USEFUL during the "Pictomancer Supremacy" arc when Dawntrail launched...

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Because it doesn't need one. It has it. On your primary target. The AoE version (40% weaker) is then dealt to everyone else.

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In fact I'd go as far as saying that since FFXIV factually uses no mezz spells (there is Sleep, but nobody ever has that on their hotbars even, nevermind would utilize it) there is no reason not to remove ~all AoEs from ~all jobs, and just make all single target attacks cause explosion damage around the target for a percentage.

There's no need to waste the hotbar space on a mechanism (avoiding hitting extra targets) that is never ever used.

Zanshin > Kaiten

still crying about this. its not gonna happen :/