Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Actually this is my other issue now that you brought it up. Dungeons marked 'expert' have to be made numbingly easy because of people like John, in your examples, that can't grasp such basic things.

Imagine how much cooler our experts could go if people learned how to press flash?



First off, fixed that for you, since you called Ala Mhigo a level 30 dungeon.

Second of all, done that. Got called a c*nt that needs a life. Expert dungeons are so fun.

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The level 30 was a reference to shield oath, not the dungeon.

I am by no means excusing the behavior of people to resort to name calling and such, but are you really being fair here? Player A is a jerk and is mean to you, so you take it out on player B?

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Originally Posted by winsock

I am by no means excusing the behavior of people to resort to name calling and such, but are you really being fair here? Player A is a jerk and is mean to you, so you take it out on player B?

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The reason this thread was made was because of people who actively ignore or harass those who put advice in a kind and helpful way. Kindly mentioning shield oath gets me harassed. Kindly mentioning fire gets me harassed. I made the thread to get the constantly building steam off before I took it out on someone who didn't deserve it.

Please look at my original post again, or do I gotta hold your hand to it as well?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Why should I be teaching a level 70 tank the importance of their tank stance? Or their cooldowns? Or their enmity combo? Shouldn’t they already have learned how those work after playing the job for 70 levels?

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Why should you be assisting those at level 15? They should also understand those things right? (save tank stance cause they dont have it yet)

What makes this situation so different? You mentioned earlier you were willing to assist this "John", the level 70 tank, in sastasha. So obviously, his level isnt your issue. The advice that you're going to give this player in sastasha is going to be extemely similar to the advice you would give this player in Ala Mhigo, save maybe the mention of tank stance.

What's the big deal? is the effort needed to mention tank stance such a deal breaker that you cant be bothered to assist John in the slightest? Is mention tank stance the straw that breaks the camel's back?

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Originally Posted by winsock

Why should you be assisting those at level 15? They should also understand those things right? (save tank stance cause they dont have it yet)

What makes this situation so different? You mentioned earlier you were willing to assist this "John", the level 70 tank, in sastasha. So obviously, his level isnt your issue. The advice that you're going to give this player in sastasha is going to be extemely similar to the advice you would give this player in Ala Mhigo, save maybe the mention of tank stance.

What's the big deal? is the effort needed to mention tank stance such a deal breaker that you cant be bothered to assist John in the slightest? Is mention tank stance the straw that breaks the camel's back?

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The difference is simple, and I am actually a bit shocked that you dont see it.
Sastasha is the first dungeon of the game. Its literally training wheels for group content. If you go there voluntarily, it is because you are new. If I get sastasha in roulette, I expect sprouts. If I enter a level 70 dungeon, I expect people to have at least played through all of the Stormblood story, which also includes at least 4 dungeons that are mandatory, giving them time to learn.

I really dont understand your way of thinking, winsock, you are currently being deliberately agressive and unrealistic in the arguments that you bring that it is hard to take them serious.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Why should you be assisting those at level 15? They should also understand those things right? (save tank stance cause they dont have it yet)

What makes this situation so different? You mentioned earlier you were willing to assist this "John", the level 70 tank, in sastasha. So obviously, his level isnt your issue. The advice that you're going to give this player in sastasha is going to be extemely similar to the advice you would give this player in Ala Mhigo, save maybe the mention of tank stance.

What's the big deal? is the effort needed to mention tank stance such a deal breaker that you cant be bothered to assist John in the slightest? Is mention tank stance the straw that breaks the camel's back?

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There is literally no point in arguing with you further. The difference between assisting someone in Sastasha with the basics and assisting someone in Ala Mhigo with the basics is that one is entry-level content, the other is end-game/level-capped content. Someone at level cap should know the basics by that point. If they don’t, the place to learn is not in level 70 content.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

I gotta hold your hand to it as well?

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I'm not being aggressive toward you, even sided with you about the person who was mean to you. I'm not telling you how to act, just pointing out that you're judging people based on actions they've never taken. Then you start talking down to me, show disrespect, and engage in the very behavior you seem to be so opposed to.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Why should you be assisting those at level 15? They should also understand those things right? (save tank stance cause they dont have it yet)

What makes this situation so different? You mentioned earlier you were willing to assist this "John", the level 70 tank, in sastasha. So obviously, his level isnt your issue. The advice that you're going to give this player in sastasha is going to be extemely similar to the advice you would give this player in Ala Mhigo, save maybe the mention of tank stance.

What's the big deal? is the effort needed to mention tank stance such a deal breaker that you cant be bothered to assist John in the slightest? Is mention tank stance the straw that breaks the camel's back?

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Here, let me help a bit here.

We aren't saying we won't mention tank stance or enmity abilities. We're saying we shouldn't need to. Sastasha is different for a simple reason, it's early dungeons, where players are still figuring things out. In fact, before reaching level 15 and getting into Sastasha, the only place you'd get any practice is Guildhests, which honestly do not do any amount of help (Specially when mar doesn't even get overpower yet for that.)

Our point is that the game, not just the player, should be teaching and enforcing these. Even IF Johny boy you like to talk about so much didn't do a single dungeon to get 70 PLD, he's bound to have run into plenty of tanks on his way through the story. Surely he must have wondered how a tank holds threat, right? Wouldn't that make him curious? He doesn't go, "Why do I still have Rage of Halone if Royal Authority is more damage?"

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Originally Posted by winsock

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Originally Posted by ovIm

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The expectation isn't unreasonable. You can't enter level 70 dungeons without doing SB story first and those have dungeons you must do before hand, even if you use a jump potion.

Tbqh, I really expect the worst out of each run I do in DF. The skill range of players varies so wildly that you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you have even reasonable expectations of people. I've learned in life that people are generally stupid, at their jobs irl and at video games. So I always expect the worse and it's always a nice experience when it doesn't turn out that way.

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Originally Posted by winsock

I'm not being aggressive toward you, even sided with you about the person who was mean to you. I'm not telling you how to act, just pointing out that you're judging people based on actions they've never taken. Then you start talking down to me, show disrespect, and engage in the very behavior you seem to be so opposed to.

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Maybe if you didn't make disingenuous arguments based purely on hypotheticals then people wouldn't be getting frustrated with you. No one should have to teach someone who's in level 70 content how to do the bare bones basics of their job, period. The reason they're bad doesn't matter, because the end result is the same: you're wasting 3 other random people's time. Practice on a dummy. Look up a guide. Watch a video. Do SOMETHING to show that you put in a modicum of effort before you jumped straight into content you have no business being in.

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Originally Posted by Hruodig

Maybe if you didn't make disingenuous arguments based purely on hypotheticals then people wouldn't be getting frustrated with you.

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^^^^^^^^^^^