A summary of healer issues

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

To know wether a skill is GCD or oGCD its also useful to check the cathegory.

Spells and weaponskills are always GCDs
Abilities are always oGCDs

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I know, that's why I used a general term like skills, because Afflatus skills apparently do not follow the usual VFX formula for GCDs.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

To know wether a skill is GCD or oGCD its also useful to check the cathegory.

Spells and weaponskills are always GCDs
Abilities are always oGCDs

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Technically, some abilities (Meditation, Mudras, etc.) incur the GCD, while some weaponskills (e.g., HW Empyreal Arrow) historically have not respected the GCD (despite incurring it).

Well, a few of us asked questions on the japanese forums regarding their stance on the healer design, and it seems that they indeed like this type of braindead 111 gameplay. It does not bode well...... And it might explain why we've been stuck with this bs design for years... They might very well just not care at all about international players.

I get the attempt of making healing accessible but it will not take long until the appeal fades and boredom settles quickly.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6481316
There have been several replies in the JP forum.

Reply #4 is the most comprehensive. It is long, but I hope you will read through it.
Some of the opinions include the perspective of novice gamers.

To be fair reading through those posts (I’m assuming google translate is translating healer as hira) they don’t exactly completely disagree (onions seem rather mixed) they just shut down when someone doesn’t follow JP’s very very cultivated style of feedback given

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Originally Posted by stemi

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6481316
There have been several replies in the JP forum.

Reply #4 is the most comprehensive. It is long, but I hope you will read through it.
Some of the opinions include the perspective of novice gamers.

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Hopefully Google Translate was able to communicate the intent of people in the thread at least a bit accurately. There's something that stuck out to me there, which was the "I want things to do that support the party"

That's what's really missing. Since the only thing that's really tweaked either way is damage (taken, given, current hp, etc)... there's not much else we can do. If we were having to manage more than one DoT, or even constant debuffs on bosses, or perhaps there were more things to remove off the party (Esuna or otherwise), a simpler DPS component wouldn't feel as bad. I agree that I'm not wanting actual red DPS numbers on a healer, that would be silly.

I agree with increasing what the healer can do to support the party so that they don't mind if the attacks are monotonous.
(I think of the healer as literally a green healer, not a green DPS. When I want to attack, I play with red DPS)
I like to rebuild situations where a lot of people have gone down in an Alliance raid.

1: I think it is a good idea to increase the use of "Esuna".

2: "Protect" was simple but carried the need for a healer. I wonder if it could be brought back? (I often forgot and was warned by members, but good memory)

3: I liked "Stoneskin II". The design may have been odd, but I love the roar of the sound effects.I feel like I worked there.

*Supplemental Information
I am such a player. :
I have loved games since I was a child. But I can't do high difficulty level... I liked easy action and adventure games. So I have never played Savage.

This text was translated using DeepL. Thanks for reading.

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Originally Posted by stemi

2: "Protect" was simple but carried the need for a healer. I wonder if it could be brought back? (I often forgot and was warned by members, but good memory)

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Probably a low level single target mit that upgrades to Aquaveil, maybe lower the damage reduction to 5% or increase the cooldown to 90s?

bumpity bumpity

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

-reintroduce random crits to encourage healing

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Every Tank Main: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Look, if you want more damage from autos throughout the fight and mechanics where tanks are taking autos, fine.
However, the random crits never promoted more healing, they created frustrating wipes because the tank would just get RNG screwed and hit the ground because the crits coming in at bad times or healers being greedy (still die to auto-attacks to this day from healers not healing me as MT)
Most of the solutions and issues make sense to me, outside of arguing tanks should have fewer raid mits... ummm yeah, no that's part of our job. Tanks don't really have a intensive mitigation rotation... its basically less brain cells melee dps while making sure you hit X button at X time IF you are the MT most of the time. OTs do bugger all until its their turn, so removing raid mits from tanks is just... so inconsiderate.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

Every Tank Main: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Look, if you want more damage from autos throughout the fight and mechanics where tanks are taking autos, fine.
However, the random crits never promoted more healing, they created frustrating wipes because the tank would just get RNG screwed and hit the ground because the crits coming in at bad times or healers being greedy (still die to auto-attacks to this day from healers not healing me as MT)
Most of the solutions and issues make sense to me, outside of arguing tanks should have fewer raid mits... ummm yeah, no that's part of our job. Tanks don't really have a intensive mitigation rotation... its basically less brain cells melee dps while making sure you hit X button at X time IF you are the MT most of the time. OTs do bugger all until its their turn, so removing raid mits from tanks is just... so inconsiderate.

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2 points on this
A) maybe they should fix the OT problem by actually engaging the OT in the fight, rather than having them play a sorta bad melee with too much health
B) raidwide mitigation on a tank should be actual mitigation, not WAR’s “my SIO is literally stronger than any single healer heal in the game”. Tanks having raidwide mitigation is fine, tanks having raidwide mitigation that’s not really mitigation but is instead a disguised overpowered AOE heal is a problem. This is why I have absolutely no problem with HOL or DM

Couldn't really find a better thread so asking here.

There's already posts in the JP forums asking to either make E. Dyskrasia and E. Dosis' dots overwrite eachother or make E. Dyskrasia dps neutral or a loss compared to Dosis with a decent number of upvotes, so I'm wondering how this side of the community sees it.

I'd personally be okay-ish with it being neutral since it'd function as a mobility tool on a 30s cd that way, but not anything beyond that. I'm especially against them overwriting.

As a tank main who seconds healer... I'm grateful to healers for what they do.

Yeah there's problems with the safeness of FFXIV's designs. However, I'm a long time player of both major MMOs and I'll take the scriptedness of 14 over the chaos of WoW.

Does it make healing more boring and the threshold harder to get good... Yeah. I think most of the time it's just how the design is coupled with tanks getting better. If you take away the scripted nature of FFXIV, then you run the risk of getting RNG-screwed with busters and autos. I don't think the fix is crits on autos, but harder hitting autos and party-wide autos, and higher incoming damage from vulns. But I also think that means that the 30-sec mits that tanks have need to be a bit stronger... Not much, just a bit.

Just one thought. But I get it. I support harder content for healers to grow.

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

Couldn't really find a better thread so asking here.

There's already posts in the JP forums asking to either make E. Dyskrasia and E. Dosis' dots overwrite eachother or make E. Dyskrasia dps neutral or a loss compared to Dosis with a decent number of upvotes, so I'm wondering how this side of the community sees it.

I'd personally be okay-ish with it being neutral since it'd function as a mobility tool on a 30s cd that way, but not anything beyond that. I'm especially against them overwriting.

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I mean, E. Dyskrasia is literally Miasma II, which is what quite a few vocal people wanted to see added back to SCH for something to break up the Broils and Biolysis casts.
Personally, I'll have to see how it handles but I think it's better then only getting the new DPS toys every 2-minutes, like Glare IV, Oracle, and Baneful Impaction.
The devs really need to improve healer's GCD gameplay in someway, whether that's bring focus back onto GCD healing and making that more then just cure-spamming or keeping healing primarily oGCD (like they've been doing) and making their GCD DPS interesting.
°˖✧◝(⁰▿⁰)◜✧˖°

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

Couldn't really find a better thread so asking here.

There's already posts in the JP forums asking to either make E. Dyskrasia and E. Dosis' dots overwrite eachother or make E. Dyskrasia dps neutral or a loss compared to Dosis with a decent number of upvotes, so I'm wondering how this side of the community sees it.

I'd personally be okay-ish with it being neutral since it'd function as a mobility tool on a 30s cd that way, but not anything beyond that. I'm especially against them overwriting.

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They have 3 other healers if they don't like what SGE is doing. I find the way the JP forums wants healers to be is antithetical to how the game is designed anyway and SGE still isn't going far enough.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

Healers have been neglected for 3 expansions now

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I'd just like to point out that healers have at least gotten a hefty visual upgrade to their main damage nuke every expansion to this point.

They didn't even do that this time.

I happened to really like "Glare", but glare III was an eyesore that obliterated its own missile effects in its own bloom.

I wrote it off and said "i'll wait for 7.0, it's not like I will like every visual, right?"
Now 7.0 is dropping and after watching the same nuke go off every gcd for 3 years I get to watch it go off for another 3.

I know this seems petty, but it's the visual equivalent of eating archon loaf as your only meal for 6 years. (but even if you consider Endwalker's visuals to be "chocolate ice cream", eating nothing but that for 3 years will make you crave brussels sprouts)

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

They have 3 other healers if they don't like what SGE is doing. I find the way the JP forums wants healers to be is antithetical to how the game is designed anyway and SGE still isn't going far enough.

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It would probably help if both sides would work together and not argue for opposing directions. What we have in common is dissatisfaction about how it is currently.

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Originally Posted by plasmacutter

I'd just like to point out that healers have at least gotten a hefty visual upgrade to their main damage nuke every expansion to this point.

They didn't even do that this time.

I happened to really like "Glare", but glare III was an eyesore that obliterated its own missile effects in its own bloom.

I wrote it off and said "i'll wait for 7.0, it's not like I will like every visual, right?"
Now 7.0 is dropping and after watching the same nuke go off every gcd for 3 years I get to watch it go off for another 3.

I know this seems petty, but it's the visual equivalent of eating archon loaf as your only meal for 6 years. (but even if you consider Endwalker's visuals to be "chocolate ice cream", eating nothing but that for 3 years will make you crave brussels sprouts)

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Can you be grateful please, you get to see glare IV 3 times every 120 seconds for a fresh animation to go with your hundreds of glare III spam, it's fine

/s

The amount of gaslighting truly is alarming.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I mean, E. Dyskrasia is literally Miasma II, which is what quite a few vocal people wanted to see added back to SCH for something to break up the Broils and Biolysis casts[...]

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Calling E.Dyskrasia a Miasma II is actually a stretch IMHO. Aside from itching the desire to have applicable "2nd DoT", they absolutely have no further resemblance beyond that for few following reason (CMIIW):

1. Higher MP cost
2. Cast time
3. Different timers

Other than that, I agree.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Calling E.Dyskrasia a Miasma II is actually a stretch IMHO. Aside from itching the desire to have applicable "2nd DoT", they absolutely have no further resemblance beyond that for few following reason (CMIIW):

1. Higher MP cost
2. Cast time
3. Different timers

Other than that, I agree.

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I mean, does it need to be anything other then a 2nd DoT that's a DPS gain on a single-target even though it was designed for AoE use to be like Miasma II?
All the things you listed are superfluous to the conversation when functionally it's going to be the same as Miasma II (at least based on the Media Tour's build). ꉂ (´∀｀)ʱªʱªʱª

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I mean, does it need to be anything other then a 2nd DoT that's a DPS gain on a single-target even though it was designed for AoE use to be like Miasma II?
All the things you listed are superfluous to the conversation when functionally it's going to be the same as Miasma II (at least based on the Media Tour's build). ꉂ (´∀｀)ʱªʱªʱª

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Well for one thing, both E.Dyskrasia and E.Dosis being 30s timer means they're just going to be used one after another. That's about 2 less Dosis casts per minute vs today's. A good shake-up IMHO would've been condensing the 2nd DoT down to anywhere from 12s to 24s.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Well for one thing, both E.Dyskrasia and E.Dosis being 30s timer means they're just going to be used one after another. That's about 2 less Dosis casts per minute vs today's. A good shake-up IMHO would've been condensing the 2nd DoT down to anywhere from 12s to 24s.

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Now that's adds to the conversation. °˖✧◝(⁰▿⁰)◜✧˖°

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Originally Posted by Ayalu

It would probably help if both sides would work together and not argue for opposing directions. What we have in common is dissatisfaction about how it is currently.

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JP has a different idea of how healers should work then most westerners. They want it to be healing only focused while most people in the west want a balance between healing and dps with unique dps mechanics like how western MMOs have been handling healers for the most part.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

JP has a different idea of how healers should work then most westerners. They want it to be healing only focused while most people in the west want a balance between healing and dps with unique dps mechanics like how western MMOs have been handling healers for the most part.

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Unless Square actually decides to make damage that needs to be healed there's not much reason to just stand there and look pretty, especially if nothing is happening. Doubly so in casual content.

Dungeon boss AI is too slow. It's basically 3 autos then one mechanic, repeat. The mechanics themselves can stay simple but they come at us far too slow (or the cast times are just too long).

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

JP has a different idea of how healers should work then most westerners. They want it to be healing only focused while most people in the west want a balance between healing and dps with unique dps mechanics like how western MMOs have been handling healers for the most part.

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I am aware and i am not opposed to that either. Im not that interrested in DPS myself, i just want fun mechanics back for example the diverse effects on the Astro Cards.
Options to support the team further would also fit in the Healer category and i dont mean extra minigation.
But diverse buffings option got pruned a long time ago. :(

Believe me i would like to support new Players with some nice buffs but best i can do is give them a High level shield if they are in danger :p

I am glad that this thread is still alive. It goes to show you how long people have been at odds with SE's design philosophy for the healer role. Much longer, in fact.

Well, the fix is in, and according to little starbirds, Eukrasian Dyskrasia no longer stacks with Eukrasian Dosis. Effectively killing the idea of 'a return of Miasma 2'

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Well, the fix is in, and according to little starbirds, Eukrasian Dyskrasia no longer stacks with Eukrasian Dosis. Effectively killing the idea of 'a return of Miasma 2'

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Apparently 'fun' is a bug to CBU3's dictionary, and has to be vanquished.

A job being too fun might create a group of players who really enjoy the particular job, which we all know is a pain to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Well for one thing, both E.Dyskrasia and E.Dosis being 30s timer means they're just going to be used one after another. That's about 2 less Dosis casts per minute vs today's. A good shake-up IMHO would've been condensing the 2nd DoT down to anywhere from 12s to 24s.

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Well they removed the option to stack them if the infos are true. From having a button more too this.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Well for one thing, both E.Dyskrasia and E.Dosis being 30s timer means they're just going to be used one after another. That's about 2 less Dosis casts per minute vs today's. A good shake-up IMHO would've been condensing the 2nd DoT down to anywhere from 12s to 24s.

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oh my sweet summer child...

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

oh my sweet summer child...

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Lmao I know. That was a fever dream :p

Can’t have fun under the guidance of Creatively Bankrupt Unit 3, can we?

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Well, the fix is in, and according to little starbirds, Eukrasian Dyskrasia no longer stacks with Eukrasian Dosis. Effectively killing the idea of 'a return of Miasma 2'

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I was hoping they would just make it a damage loss in ST. Not being able to stack two DoTs on a "big" enemy in a trash pack is sad.

Time for the necro of all of all necros. It really is a shame that this thread never really got attention from SE.

My sub runs out tomorrow and I will not be coming back until 8.0 (Unless 8.0 looks awful). I've been a healer main since ARR patches and have been playing since ARR Beta. The way they have treated job identity throughout the years has been very hit or miss, a lot of misses, a few changes recently in some DPS has been good but when it comes to healers it has been absolutely awful. I was an Astro main since it came out in HW and I actually quite liked what it was in Shb, it had a horrible raid opener because it was chaotic but besides that, I understood why they made the changes from SB to Shb even if it was more boring. However the changes from the beginning of EW to DT are terrible.

This expansion makes me think that the devs don't get paid enough or the whole team is just so arrogant because they have the mighty Final Fantasy brand name to carry whatever they make whether it's good or bad. Remember PoE2 will be free too play, it's not out yet and it already looks better than current FF14.

This was a good read, Thanks for the necro. Bump.

it's actually kinda funny to read the whole patchnote.
A lot of things to say and adjust about all the jobs.
When it comes to supports jobs,they get 5 potency to be included in the patchnote while it makes close to no difference.

Funny, sad, yet expected.