Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

No, it absolutely does not, what we need are new abilities to weave in and out along with the remaining summons. Shiva/Ramuh/Leviathan or Sophia/Sephirot/Zurvan, either trio works. A bar to charge up to eventually summon Alexander or Odin. Upgrading the aetherflow charges to one-off attacks from Lakshmi or Susano. The possibilities are quite literally endless.

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So make it into a 3 minute rotation.... genius....
That's sarcasm btw

If they change aetherflow to what you suggested, it wouldn't fix the problem. All you are suggesting is more flash and not the gameplay adjustment that the job needs to not be 1 dimensional

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Originally Posted by remiff

you won't see any new summon until 7.0, 6.1 balances are still minor micro reworks with existing spells, the only things they might do is etherflow and r4 changes and some hotfixes ont the raidbuff/shield .
and anyway proc systems are a bad idea for the summoner, they had done it in the past with r4, and it was not good.

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I think adding procs would give us something yo manage. The biggest complaint I’ve seen about the ease of the job, is that there’s nothing for us to manage. Black mage has long cast times, ice/fire stances, procs, a DoT, poly stacks. Red mage has procs, and the mana gauge.

Summoner has a set rotation where you just dump the resources of your current phase, and then move onto the next. I think this iteration has a lot of potential, but there’s nothing to track, and nothing that makes a good summoner substantially better than a bad one.

My ideas were more for like 7.0 changes. I would like to see some smaller changes in 6.1.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

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Do you have a life outside of this forum, or all you do is basically sitting in front of a screen and write ASAP the same things about new and old SMN every time? Girl, go do some sunbathing.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

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I disagree that they can't have roles or niche tasks. This only really works if there are more summons though, or if we summon less. I don't honestly understand why we need to poop out a primal from a checklist every few seconds to feel like a summoner, but I digress. Granted none of this would even be remotely possible as of right now, since they have committed to this build, but...

Summoning - you could remove the Fire/Wind/Earth thing and instead replace it with a Light/Dark or Light/Dark/Dynamis, the name isn't really important here just the function. You then split the Summons into those categories that apply. You have an AOE and a ST option in each category, and keep the Catastrophe spell around for goofing up in an AOE situation by pulling an ST focused Summon and vice versa for Rite in goof up ST situations. Finally you make it so you can only summon one from each category each cycle, just as it is now. Potency on signature attacks upon summoning would remain AOE and flat across the board. So the adjustments for AOE specialization and ST specialization would come in the form of potency differences, along with function from the rite/cata and astral flow abilities.

For button bloat and to deal with the category situation of adding more summons, for controller you click your "light" summon button, then have it replace your Light / Dark summon buttons with the options available from that category. So pressing the category button the first time would be a GCD then the summon from the category would function as an oGCD or vice versa the category ability could be an oGCD, followed by the summon which is then a GCD.

You can then start adding interesting passive smaller buffs/debuffs upon summoning to the various summons. Some may work better in solo situations vs party situations etc... but if you did what I said above then it doesn't make any of them useless. They all have a use, they will all be seen depending on ST/AOE situation. The key is to keep them all useful, so for example if you wanted a good party buff on one, you plop that on an AOE focused Summon, thus you have the power trade off for doing that buff in an ST focused situation. Groups then have to weigh if that buff is worth the power trade off during a particular phase.

You could also have more interesting things on fester/painflare by having summons flavor what they do. His stun example, grabs Ramuh's power, changes the way fester works to apply a stun as well as damage, or Garuda's gives windburn on painflare etc... You could maybe activate that with energy siphon or something... and just keep energy drain for the stacks.

Anyway, none of this is possible the way it currently got set up, and these were really quick ideas. I'm simply pointing out it's not impossible and all it takes is some creativity and obviously balancing.

Did se actually ever fix any jobs between patches ?

I personally fear we need to wait two years for any changes to the job, which is a very long time, the only thing they maybe able to solve is the low dps output as the little changes they made to the dps output of smn didn’t help anything and because they buffed a lot of other classes it is actually worse now. And we at least could be a top three dps class again in stead of the bottom three dps we are now.

The only point I wanted to make with all my posts is to let se know that it’s not okay to completely change the play style of a job, because current players like playing that job why would they otherwise play it ?

I would already be happy if se at least acknowledged that this smn completely play style rework was a mistake and that they went to far so I could be reassured that they will not do the same to a other class I would like to main.

They should bring back the carbuncles as ogcds to weave

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Originally Posted by XmissionsX

Did se actually ever fix any jobs between patches ?

I personally fear we need to wait two years for any changes to the job, which is a very long time, the only thing they maybe able to solve is the low dps output as the little changes they made to the dps output of smn didn’t help anything and because they buffed a lot of other classes it is actually worse now. And we at least could be a top three dps class again in stead of the bottom three dps we are now.

The only point I wanted to make with all my posts is to let se know that it’s not okay to completely change the play style of a job, because current players like playing that job why would they otherwise play it ?

I would already be happy if se at least acknowledged that this smn completely play style rework was a mistake and that they went to far so I could be reassured that they will not do the same to a other class I would like to main.

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Not every class has the right to constantly remain as top dps, you should also be playing what you find the most fun as opposed to whatever is dealing the highest damage at the time. (Besides that, ultimately what will matter most is knowing mechanics to clear fights properly.)

They reserve the right to change jobs as they see fit. This includes new Summoner of course, but given the widespread positive sentiments and satisfaction with the current job, a total reversion or another rework is unlikely to happen. I've seen things change drastically from the early days of ARR to the point we're at in EW and the only advice I can give is to try and sample a wide variety of jobs. With fair warning, Bard and Samurai are likely to see some changes in the future because one can hardly be called a Bard and the other is suffering from too much button bloat and general chaos.

So no, just because a handful of "complexity!" fans are upset doesn't mean the rework was a mistake, and a fundamental redesign from the ground-up was necessary in this case because the job had veered too far away from what most would recognize as a Summoner both mechanically and visually. Being married to any one particular job is entirely your decision, so you have to be ready and willing to accept unexpected changes as they come.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Not every class has the right to constantly remain as top dps, you should also be playing what you find the most fun as opposed to whatever is dealing the highest damage at the time. (Besides that, ultimately what will matter most is knowing mechanics to clear fights properly.)

So no, just because a handful of "complexity!" fans are upset doesn't mean the rework was a mistake, and a fundamental redesign from the ground-up was necessary in this case because the job had veered too far away from what most would recognize as a Summoner both mechanically and visually. Being married to any one particular job is entirely your decision, so you have to be ready and willing to accept unexpected changes as they come.

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I'll take it from another perspective; Not every job should expect to be the worst DPS either right? MCH is the bottom of the barrel since ShB. Complexity of a job is biased to begin with. I'm bad with priority systems personally, I'm not a great Ranged Physical DPS player. That said, I've logged oranged on Stormblood Tornado Kick rotation Monk which was arguably a lot more "complex". I honestly started to play Reaper and there's nothing more easy to play than Reaper. I'm sure some RPR mains will go and say, "Try building a triple Enshroud burst". Yeah, that is more difficult to pull. You can honestly, apply the same concept to any job in the game.

If the devs wants to see Melee > Caster > Ranged Physical. Fine, but there's a God damn anomaly in BLM right now. True balance is impossible anyways, the best we could see imho is a difference of about 5% to 8% between the best and worst. Right now it's about 12%. They buffed top tier jobs like MNK and BLM and then gave insulting buffs on SMN & MCH.

If you want more, you can always check This Video

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Originally Posted by XmissionsX

Did se actually ever fix any jobs between patches ?

I personally fear we need to wait two years for any changes to the job, which is a very long time, the only thing they maybe able to solve is the low dps output as the little changes they made to the dps output of smn didn’t help anything and because they buffed a lot of other classes it is actually worse now. And we at least could be a top three dps class again in stead of the bottom three dps we are now.

The only point I wanted to make with all my posts is to let se know that it’s not okay to completely change the play style of a job, because current players like playing that job why would they otherwise play it ?

I would already be happy if se at least acknowledged that this smn completely play style rework was a mistake and that they went to far so I could be reassured that they will not do the same to a other class I would like to main.

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Summoner was fixed reasonably well between 5.0 and 5.1 when they changed the Egi Assault skills from oGCD to GCD skills, so there's some precedence. Pretty amusing that the example is also summoner, though.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

I'll take it from another perspective; Not every job should expect to be the worst DPS either right? MCH is the bottom of the barrel since ShB. Complexity of a job is biased to begin with. I'm bad with priority systems personally, I'm not a great Ranged Physical DPS player. That said, I've logged oranged on Stormblood Tornado Kick rotation Monk which was arguably a lot more "complex". I honestly started to play Reaper and there's nothing more easy to play than Reaper. I'm sure some RPR mains will go and say, "Try building a triple Enshroud burst". Yeah, that is more difficult to pull. You can honestly, apply the same concept to any job in the game.

If the devs wants to see Melee > Caster > Ranged Physical. Fine, but there's a God damn anomaly in BLM right now. True balance is impossible anyways, the best we could see imho is a difference of about 5% to 8% between the best and worst. Right now it's about 12%. They buffed top tier jobs like MNK and BLM and then gave insulting buffs on SMN & MCH.

If you want more, you can always check This Video

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The biggest problem is with the caster role itself. Rez on casters has been a problem since ARR.

Caster is the only role that has progression jobs vs clear jobs. Every other role is just balanced around each other.