So, can we just ban damage meters already.

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

There is such a thing as over-regulation, and under-regulated.

But some regulations and rules are necessary and good for the functioning of society, which allows everyone to benefit.


I’m not referring to myself, how much I like or dislike MMOs, nor discussing how much different people should be contributing. I’m discussing how people should interact with people in an MMOs, especially strangers, and I feel it should be in a civil and mature matter. Do you disagree?

Are you saying that when you pick a tank, the only thing that should be considered is the damage they do and nothing else? Because my argument is that when you consider the worth of a job, or how well someone did, you consider all aspects rather than focusing on specifically on the DPS number produced by the parser. If you think you should consider only DPS when choosing a tank, then we have a disagreement. I believe all aspects of a job should be considered when choosing it’s worth.

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In other games that logic of "what do they contribute besides dps" might work, but not this one. this is a game where healers spend 70% of the time, minimum, casting dps spells. The only thing that matters for them in terms of healing is that they kept the team alive, so long as they did that, they cannot heal any better. So what else can you judge them on? Their dps.

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

On the topic of party chat or vote abandon; I feel it’s the behaviour that should regulated. If someone feels they were harassed by someone, they have the right to report it and have it investigated.

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This is not only a slippery slope but it causes issues where one's feelings dictate if something is worth time and resources.

Just because someone feels harassed does not mean that the event needs to be investigated. There needs to be a stated minimum of what is and isn't considered harassment. Otherwise, anything and everything can be considered as such, depending on feelings. Then, if someone feels harassed reports the person they feel harassed them what evidence should be considered to define if it is actually harassment and worth punishment? You can't define that one's feelings should be enough grounds for a report but not define if they are using this as a way to regulate the behavior of all players.

And then you get into the whole mess if they do try to regulate based on the reporter's feelings.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

Just because someone feels harassed does not mean that the event needs to be investigated. There needs to be a stated minimum of what is and isn't considered harassment. Otherwise, anything and everything can be considered as such, depending on feelings.

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Reading SE's super duper vague terms of behavior this is basically the case.
It's also the reason why people ingame are pretty quiet even if stuff doesn't work straight away b/c you can theoretically be banned for literally everything you say.
"Unilaterally dismissing another players opinion" comes to mind.

In WoW, I was never afraid to speak my mind, as long as you didn't insult anyone, everything was golden. In this game? I'd rather kick w/o saying anything. Which I hate btw, imho a player deserves to know why because only then can he see what is afoot and start working on improving. Experienced players giving me advice was how I grew into a decent player. (and this isn't even related to parsers)

But yeah: not going to risk being banned just because some special snowflake got their feels ruffled.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

This is not only a slippery slope but it causes issues where one's feelings dictate if something is worth time and resources.

Just because someone feels harassed does not mean that the event needs to be investigated. There needs to be a stated minimum of what is and isn't considered harassment. Otherwise, anything and everything can be considered as such, depending on feelings. Then, if someone feels harassed reports the person they feel harassed them what evidence should be considered to define if it is actually harassment and worth punishment? You can't define that one's feelings should be enough grounds for a report but not define if they are using this as a way to regulate the behavior of all players.

And then you get into the whole mess if they do try to regulate based on the reporter's feelings.

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I mean... you can't stop that. Hell this world NOW is like that. I think SE should've made the rules MEANER. Cause just like everyone likes to poke at the person you're using. There's people out there who want nothing but to hurt other people and will stop at nothing to do it. It isn't just weak people who can't take an opinion... -which I think is still a LARGE part of this playerbase. And NO I don't just mean people who are called casuals.... I mean alot of the so called hardcores are this weak minded as well.- It's also the people who force their opinions on others and wonder why they get push back that has the problem too. In short you're NEVER going to stop people from being people.

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

There is such a thing as over-regulation, and under-regulated.
I’m not referring to myself, how much I like or dislike MMOs, nor discussing how much different people should be contributing. I’m discussing how people should interact with people in an MMOs, especially strangers, and I feel it should be in a civil and mature matter. Do you disagree?

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How is dictating the way people should act in a mmo good for said mmo's community? Sure, there needs to be rules on what obviously shouldn't be allowed, but the fact that saying almost anything constructive or giving out any form of criticism right now can result in a warning/ban says plenty about the coddled playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

How is dictating the way people should act in a mmo good for said mmo's community? Sure, there needs to be rules on what obviously shouldn't be allowed, but the fact that saying almost anything constructive or giving out any form of criticism right now can result in a warning/ban says plenty about the coddled playerbase.

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Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I think he's saying simply we wouldn't have these problems if people were understanding and not being well.... people. But because people being people this is why we say " This is why we can't have nice things"

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

How is dictating the way people should act in a mmo good for said mmo's community? Sure, there needs to be rules on what obviously shouldn't be allowed, but the fact that saying almost anything constructive or giving out any form of criticism right now can result in a warning/ban says plenty about the coddled playerbase.

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https://amp.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ew_behavioral/

It's already been said, constructive criticism is fine.

Edited, sorry I needed to fix the link

If you are doing less dps than the healer or the tank and you are a dps with respectable gear, shouldnt that be considered trolling since you have to be literally not trying to play at all unless you are playing a low dps class such as ninja or dancer. But still you have to consider ppl who have disabilities, etc.

I agree with the OP but they are already a bannable offense.

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Originally Posted by Derio

If you are doing less dps than the healer or the tank and you are a dps with respectable gear, shouldnt that be considered trolling since you have to be literally not trying to play at all unless you are playing a low dps class such as ninja or dancer. But still you have to consider ppl who have disabilities, etc.

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Um did my ex on SMN (i427) today, I very rarely play that class, so I make tons of mistakes. Groups 12K, bosses around 8K.
Overall combined I was at tank level of DPS. Enough to do the dungeon but certainly low enough that most peeps will scratch their heads.

So it is possible to be that low and not be deliberately trolling.

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Originally Posted by Imbrium

https://amp.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ew_behavioral/

It's already been said, constructive criticism is fine.

Edited, sorry I needed to fix the link

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"Even if it was not the intention, a penalty may be imposed if the end result was that another person was hurt or obstructed."

This is also assuming the GM's enforcement of these rules are consistent. And even with that GM ensuring there won't be penalties for constructive criticism, I doubt many players would want to risk a warning on their account when they could easily just vote kick without saying a word.