Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

AoE roration:

Verblizzard: 5s cast AoE, 220 pot, 7 Black Mana.
Verwater: 5s cast AoE, 220 pot, 7 White Mana.

Scatter: 2s cast AoE, 120 pot, 3/3 mana. Upgrades to Impact during Impactful.
Moulinet: Grants Impactful, can stack 5 times, 30 seconds duration.
Impact: Instant cast AoE, 220 pot, 4/4 mana. Can only be used during Impactful. Consumes one Impactful stack.

AoE rotation: Scatter > Verblizzard > Scatter > Verwater > Enchanted Moulinet > Impact.

Pretty please!!

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

AoE roration:

Verblizzard: 5s cast AoE, 220 pot, 7 Black Mana.
Verwater: 5s cast AoE, 220 pot, 7 White Mana.

Scatter: 2s cast AoE, 120 pot, 3/3 mana. Upgrades to Impact during Impactful.
Moulinet: Grants Impactful, can stack 5 times, 30 seconds duration.
Impact: Instant cast AoE, 220 pot. Can only be used during Impactful. Consumes one Impactful stack.

AoE rotation: Scatter > Verblizzard > Scatter > Verwater > Enchanted Moulinet > Impact.

Pretty please!!

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I mean, I too would prefer AoE Verthunder and AoE Veraero to be replaced with Verblizzard and Verwater (respectively) if only to be less confusing, particularly with Acceleration, but...

What you're suggesting sounds like what we already have, but 220 potency stronger for every 20 Mana? Effectively meaning you're just begging for potency increases -- on our AoE -- when numbers aren't even finalized yet?

And the 1:1 proc-rates on Enchanted Moulinet -> Impact are basically just E.Moulinet damage over 2 GCDs? There's nothing meaningful being added to the rotation, just an extra GCD every time you use <other button>.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

I mean, I too would prefer AoE Verthunder and AoE Veraero to be replaced with Verblizzard and Verwater (respectively) if only to be less confusing, particularly with Acceleration, but...

What you're suggesting sounds like what we already have, but 220 potency stronger for every 20 Mana? Effectively meaning you're just begging for potency increases -- on our AoE -- when numbers aren't even finalized yet?

And the 1:1 proc-rates on Enchanted Moulinet -> Impact are basically just E.Moulinet damage over 2 GCDs? There's nothing meaningful being added to the rotation, just an extra GCD every time you use <other button>.

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My suggestion does not focus on increasing potency. They showed Impact as 220 potency, so I did 220 potency, why not? And Impact + Impact is better than scatter + Verblizzard/Verwater, it's the perfect "enhancement" to Moulinet. I mean, the actions are already there, I just want them to tie them together with this cool mechanic. I don't want to increase AoE potency, I just want to the rotation to have a RDM feeling. Now it's just the inversion of single target, nothing interesting.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

My suggestion does not focus on increasing potency. They showed Impact as 220 potency, so I did 220 potency, why not? And Impact + Impact is better than scatter + Verblizzard/Verwater, it's the perfect "enhancement" to Moulinet. I mean, the actions are already there, I just want them to tie them together with this cool mechanic. I don't want to increase AoE potency, I just want to the rotation to have a RDM feeling. Now it's just the inversion of single target, nothing interesting.

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Alright, lemme give you an illustration.

ShB rotation: Verthunder (120p, 0/7) > Impact (220p, 3/3) > Veraero (120p, 7/0) > Impact (220p, 3/3) > [...] > Enchanted Moulinet (200p, -20/-20)
Your suggestion: Scatter (120p, 3/3) > Verblizzard (220p, 0/7) > Scatter (120p, 3/3) > Verwater (220p, 7/0) > [...] > Enchanted Moulinet (200p, -20/-20) > Impact (220p, 0/0?)

In either version, over the course of two GCDs, your Mana is 3/10 and you've inflicted 120p+220p damage per target -- the rate of growth is unchanged. The only thing that changes is which of the two casts is the 3/3 and which is the 7/0.
Over four GCDs, you are at 13/13 Mana and have dealt 680 total potency per target. Again, nothing has functionally changed but the aesthetic. Other hand, because it now exactly mirrors the single-target rotation, it's even less interesting, just 1:1 skill substitutes.

Now, you will note that since we haven't yet reached the cost of Moulinet by this point, your options are either to repeat the rotation of four GCDs for 26/26, or use each 7/0 skill again to reach exactly 20/20 in only 2 more GCDs. Note that in your suggestion, because both 7/0 skills are longcasts, fullcasting at least one of them is a total PPS and MPS loss, so your only real option is to repeat the rotation. By virtue of the Shadowbringers rotation having each be shortcasts, you're more flexible -- and having and then losing flexibility would actually feel worse.
Moving on.

Because the potencies of the first four GCDs and E.Moulinet are exactly the same, the only functional change to the rotation is the addition of Impact as a free, instant 220 potency that generates 1 charge from each E.Moulinet.
Because you can hold up to 5 charges, it is irrelevant whether you choose to alternate E.Moulinet > Impact five times, or spam up to five E.Moulinets and then chain 5 Impacts. The same number of Mana and GCDs is spent for the same potency gained.

That means for 20/20 Mana, you get 200p+220p damage in your suggestion, versus only 200p for the Shadowbringers rotation.

Your suggestion may not "focus" on increasing potency, but that is the only relevant positive change it makes to the rotation. It doesn't impact the "feeling", nor add to the "coolness" of mechanics. Just more damage to up the average potency per GCD.

That being said, it does highlight that the damage of E.Moulinet is a little low for the AoE finisher, and I would once again suggest it trade potencies with Impact, and that Impact's Mana scale to the number of targets.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

Alright, lemme give you an illustration.

snip

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Well, since the potencies are not finished yet I did not focus on them, so that's why I just copy paste what they did show. I would surely change the potencies if what they did show was final tho. I was more interested into showing the rotation.

By setting Impact's mana scale to the number of targets could possibly bring a new interesting extension to the rotation. Or maybe Change impact to oGCD during Impactful effect after E. Moulinet, so that we can use "Scatter > Dualcast> Elemental > Impact(oGCD)", but that would call for it to be an additional button rather than replace Scatter for the duration.

Another thing is the Black and White versions of the Gauge when it's not Red, I think it could be used for something beneficial. Maybe a oGCD, with a cooldown that lines up with hafl the rate as which you generates Verflare/Verholy, so that you can use Verflare > Build Mana untill you go Black Gauge, and then use the oGCD that can only be used during after Verflare and during The Black gauge (Let's say Verblizzard single target version), spending the black mana and doing damage that it's worth it, going to Red Gauge, then you can build mana for a Verholy to cast the oGCD (Verwater single target) that can only be used during White Gauge, then get back to generate Verflare, lining the cooldown in that way. That's actually how I imagine the final rotation of the Job for level 99.

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

Well, since the potencies are not finished yet I did not focus on them, so that's why I just copy paste what they did show. I would surely change the potencies if what they did show was final tho. I was more interested into showing the rotation.

By setting Impact's mana scale to the number of targets could possibly bring a new interesting extension to the rotation. Or maybe Change impact to oGCD during Impactful effect after E. Moulinet, so that we can use "Scatter > Dualcast> Elemental > Impact(oGCD)", but that would call for it to be an additional button rather than replace Scatter for the duration.

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I should note now that my suggestions just there -- increasing the strength of Moulinet (220-250p), and weakening Impact but scaling its Mana (say, 180-200p, 2/2 per target to a cap) -- were intended for the base version that has been announced, and not for your suggested alternative.

I'm a fan of changing AoE Verthunder/aero to Verblizzard and Verwater -- unless the devs had planned something else for our use of Ice and Water magic, but since they elected not to add anything of the sort to our rotation this expansion I highly doubt it. It will annoy me to no end that the only unlimited job with all 6 elements is Ninja, not even a caster.
However, macros (easily fixed with a rename) and confusion about Acceleration aside, this addition is mostly aesthetic.

I'm fine with Impact replacing Scatter. I've always thought it would make a gorgeous AoE.

I'm also fine with nothing following Moulinet, since I would consider 5 buttons plenty for our AoE. About the only thing that could reasonably be added would be a DoT with cleave effectiveness, and we've all seen how DoT suggestions have turned out.

My biggest, truest wish for Red Mage is that they'll move things around and give us Vercure and Verrraise before level 50. It's Incredibly irritating that Summoner is a better Redmage than Redmage is before level 64.

Personally I would like to RDM get Protect and Shell as a 15s to 20s buff. Just seems very RDM to me.

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Originally Posted by Valavaern

My biggest, truest wish for Red Mage is that they'll move things around and give us Vercure and Verrraise before level 50. It's Incredibly irritating that Summoner is a better Redmage than Redmage is before level 64.

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I agree that at the very least they should drop the level on Vercure. If its best use (behind targetless Dualcasts) is to provide us with self-sustainability then putting such a high limiter on our healing is a poor choice.

Granting, so is making Physick purely Mind-based and removing Drain from BLMs. We can't always have a pocket healer, and some of us didn't level healer Chocobos.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Personally I would like to RDM get Protect and Shell as a 15s to 20s buff. Just seems very RDM to me.

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Admittedly with healers losing Protect as a party buff, I would have rather seen Protect or Shell incorporated as a WHM raid utility, their method of giving temporary mitigation to the group instead of the wings cooldown they're getting. Perhaps the other as an AST skill to fit their Time Mage themes.

But for RDMs, I see your Protect/Shell and raise you: Reflect.

As I've said before in this thread, Counterattacks fit very well with the Red Mage's fencing themes, while using a Defensive skill in order to Attack is very much a mix of White and Black magical philosophies that go up their mixed-magic alley.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Personally I would like to RDM get Protect and Shell as a 15s to 20s buff. Just seems very RDM to me.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

But for RDMs, I see your Protect/Shell and raise you: Reflect.

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Call it Phalanx for the Final Fantasy XI fans in the audience.