o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Good.

Removing unnecessary item redundancy and reducing item bloat does not equal "dumbing down"

There's a good reason there aren't any parts for sale in the wards. This will eliminate a useless element from the crafting system and streamline it into a more gameplay and economy-oriented system.

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I wanted to "Like" this more than once...

I swear people, there is a fine line between making a game too realistic and too simplistic. I don't want to play a game thats so realistic it becomes as frustrating as real life can be. If I want reality I can log out.

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Good.

Removing unnecessary item redundancy and reducing item bloat does not equal "dumbing down"

There's a good reason there aren't any parts for sale in the wards. This will eliminate a useless element from the crafting system and streamline it into a more gameplay and economy-oriented system.

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Thats right, it doesn't. But stripping the classes of everything outside of the actual synth itself does. No Guild rewards and No guild support and no sub class requirements = dumbed down.

Geez, I left for work this morning and we were at 24 pages, I came back and we're at 43... I've tried to read everything... But it really seems like the division in this argument is split down the line of people who understand economics and people who don't.

To pull a quote from a few pages back:

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Originally Posted by Denmo

I wasn't aware that players were leveling their craft mainly on parts like Leather vamps. It seems to me they'll just have to find other stackable items to level on instead. Like say, I dunno, leather?

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Right now crafters turn hides into leather in a certain phase of their ranking process. The process of turning hides into leather also expands the material in two ways. First you basically get more than what you put in. One hide turns into 4 pieces of leather. Each of those 4 pieces can be turned into another part... for this example lets say straps. One leather makes 12 straps. The second way is that each of these new items in greater quantities turns into an ingredient for another potentially skillgaining synth.

1 hide => 4 leather = 48 straps

From a skill-up aspect those straps can be used in 48 difference skill earning synths. They might not be... but the potential is still there.

The flaw in your argument is that one piece of leather will no longer account for the same amount of skill earning synths.

So whereas now, one hide could potentially be dozens of synths, now it becomes one or two.

The demand for hides will sky rocket because now crafters need hundreds of hides to reach a new rank where before they could reach a new rank with maybe 40-50 hides broken down into leather, broken down into straps or something else.

Prices will actually go up with this system UNLESS they drastically increase the drop rates for the base materials. Because now each hide accounts for significantly less chances for skill gaining synths to be performed. The demand for materials is going to be astronomical and the rate of growth for crafters is going to be significantly diminished.

Someone a few pages back said he doesn't craft much now but after these changes are implemented he will be crafting every day...

I really doubt he will... because he's going to hit rank 31 and realize he suddenly needs to make about 1000 canvas doublets and those doublets are going to need 1000 canvas cloths, 1000 cotton yarns, 1000 brass nuggets, and 1000 dodo leathers (dodo? buffalo? i forget.) then he's going to give up again.

Amineri's posts about the flaws to the market wards and the bazaar system do a good job of really addressing the root of the problem. And to a lesser extent her comments about the lack of an actual, functioning item request feature. The limit to the amount of inventory slots each retainer and character has is absurd and is creating a bottle neck in the economy. only so many items can be sold or traded so lower priority things are passed over for bigger ticket items. None of the changes to crafting will fix this.

The thread is not meant to be "leave everything the way it is or i quitz!" it's "Changes are needed... but are THESE changes the best way to go?"

And as amineri pointed out again, we have no context for these changes outside of the listed changes themselves... it's possible that SE has a huge net of inventory changes to implement and this only one small facet of the overall change, and when it's done some magic new system will be in place and it will all be ice cream and puppydogs... but the probability of that scenario is limited, so we have to respond to the information we have as best we can.

And the truth of situation is that these fixes largely ignore the real problems with crafting.

We've got a broken leg and we're patching it with neosporin and a band-aid.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

To the people who keep talking about the people who like crafting the way it was..

These changes do not change crafting in any way. The system used to craft will remain exactly the same. Random synths will require less Mats but its not gonna be any different. These changes don't actually address the problems that make people not like crafting. I'm sorry but your claims that we are resistant to change because we lik it the way it is are wrong. We are resistant to changes that do not do anything to correct the problem.

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indeed crafting isn't going to any easier or less tedious, the problem is as you said what their changing isn't the probelm the problem is in other aspects of the game that ar not being changed yet and the crafting aspect is suffering for it.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

To the people who keep talking about the people who like crafting the way it was..

These changes do not change crafting in any way. The system used to craft will remain exactly the same. Random synths will require less Mats but its not gonna be any different. These changes don't actually address the problems that make people not like crafting. I'm sorry but your claims that we are resistant to change because we lik it the way it is are wrong. We are resistant to changes that do not do anything to correct the problem.

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This, and this opens up potential new problems - namely over-saturation of crafted gear, making crafting completely unprofitable.

Gear should either be harder to craft successfulyl after this patch, or it should require more mats. Otherwise this makes gear production completely imbalanced.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

The system used to craft will remain exactly the same. Random synths will require less Mats but its not gonna be any different.

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Did you read the Notes?

Removal of Crafting Facility and Treatise RequirementsAs with secondary class skills, crafting facilities and treatises are virtually essential for current recipes. New recipes, however, will require neither at this point in time.

Removal of Secondary Skill RequirementsMany of the current recipes have a secondary class requirement, forcing players to develop skills in multiple crafting disciplines. New recipes, however, will not require secondary skills at this point in time.

How will it remain exactly the same? O_o

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Anyone with an ounce of common sense should understand,
that their opinion is not equal to the opinion of the general population.

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It's not about my opinion, I personally hate crafting and care less if they remove every DoH from the game. It's about the majority and its pretty obvious what they want. If you can't understand that, then god help you.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Did you read the Notes?

Removal of Crafting Facility and Treatise RequirementsAs with secondary class skills, crafting facilities and treatises are virtually essential for current recipes. New recipes, however, will require neither at this point in time.

Removal of Secondary Skill RequirementsMany of the current recipes have a secondary class requirement, forcing players to develop skills in multiple crafting disciplines. New recipes, however, will not require secondary skills at this point in time.

How will it remain exactly the same? O_o

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He means the process will remain the same. What people don't like is the process of sitting there hitting standard over and over, or that a level 10 craft needs a level 40 mat. They aren't addressing the actual problem, they are just cutting things out of the system randomly.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Did you read the Notes?

Removal of Crafting Facility and Treatise RequirementsAs with secondary class skills, crafting facilities and treatises are virtually essential for current recipes. New recipes, however, will require neither at this point in time.

Removal of Secondary Skill RequirementsMany of the current recipes have a secondary class requirement, forcing players to develop skills in multiple crafting disciplines. New recipes, however, will not require secondary skills at this point in time.

How will it remain exactly the same? O_o

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He isnt talking about the factors for success he's talking about the mechanical user inputs that go into crafting.

Basically people are still going to be super bored as they spam Standard for synths where they are trying to grind skill.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

He isnt talking about the factors for success he's talking about the mechanical user inputs that go into crafting.

Basically people are still going to be super bored as they spam Standard for synths where they are trying to grind skill.

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Only there won't be anything to grind on anymore since all the parts will be gone :P