How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

Anyone done enough testing to see if we should be stacking full crit or full direct?

Tbh i'd say going for direct hit is way better, we wont get enough crit to make it worth.

I'm also curious on which materia we should put, crit, direct crit, or det?

Also about det, why isn't that a must? (I recall the ARR days Det had a really good stat weight but apparently it all went down with HW)

I have 13 cracked clusters and waiting for someone to tell me what's the best stat :D

I'd recommend you to wait for the omega normal and eventually new craft gear before using materia VI tbh.

But they're so easy to get... by the way when does Omega come out? (This week or next week?)

There's no good reason to hang onto clusters and wait for Omega. With 3 instances, A rank hunts are up constantly. I'm sitting on 21 clusters and 700 centerio seals after using a combo of both to buy 15 VI's. Get in a hunt LS and go spam them. Even doing them casually you'll be rolling in clusters.

Granted you don't NEED VI's for doing EX primals but there's also no reason to sit on them when you're drowning in clusters/seals. Prices on them are going to bottom out fast as more people realize how easy they are to obtain.

Next tuesday, well they might be easy to get but still it's a waste, better wait for at least gear that will be usefull for a while and theorycraftin.
Yet, if you still wanna invest you can meld like this if ya want.

I'd recommend Direct hit first and 2nd tbh I'm thorn apart between crit and det, det being known for being pretty bad for a while I'd say crit.

i put all crit into my gear, i may try to go all direct hit instead and see where i am.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...80#post4263080

all hope on 4.05?

Following the release of Omega DeltaScape, it seems that most of the i320 gears are direct stat boosts from the i300 Ala Mhigan gears.

Only exceptions are for gloves and boots where Determination is changed for Direct hit one way or another and the belt which is Direct Hit/Det instead of Crit/SS.

Since it seem we are still flooded with SkillSpeed on most pieces, has anyone made calculations with our new rotation to determine what is the optimal SkillSpeed threshold for 4.0?
I know that, with the new TP values, we will not risk going dry on TP as easily, but ending up activating LotD during the wrong skill or needing to delay it more than we should could cause some issues in the long run.

I want sub 500 SS to be honest. It doesn't benefit us at all and I'd take the extra 1,000-1,100 I have and put it right into Direct Hit

It's ridiculous

My biggest gripe with SE is not making dragonfire dive count as a jump. If it did, getting into LotD would be so much faster especially in the opener. I hope they fix us soon. It's kind of depressing

The only changes I really want to see is a 5% buff to the heavy thrust damage modifier, and have the eyes separate from BotD.

I also feel that Dragon Sight can be a bit clunky at times (won't be a problem in an organised raid setting). Maybe they need to change to the skill a bit simply because of how it interacts in dungeons.

Yes I constantly give it to the tank because most times other melee don't get to the boss on time while I'm doing the opener. Sucks you actually have to target the party member. Doing the rotation just feels weird now

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Originally Posted by LiquidSwordz

Yes I constantly give it to the tank because most times other melee don't get to the boss on time while I'm doing the opener. Sucks you actually have to target the party member. Doing the rotation just feels weird now

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Yeah I have a macro now for <2> and it's always the tank. I don't even bother if there are other mele. It's lazy and it sucks but there it is.

It'd be better to put it on just anyone than to have to chase down the one person your macro will target. This is what I came up with:

/macroicon "Dragon Sight"
/macroerror
/action "Dragon Sight" <mo>
/action "Dragon Sight" <t>
/action "Dragon Sight" <6>
/action "Dragon Sight" <4>
/action "Dragon Sight" <2>
/action "Dragon Sight" <3>
/action "Dragon Sight" <7>
/action "Dragon Sight" <8>
/action "Dragon Sight" <5>

The order here assumes default sort and is a compromise between light and full parties (since let's face it, it would be a pain to swap this out depending on the duty). With that in mind, the priority should be obvious: explicitly chosen target > likely to be melee > likely to be a tank > likely to be a dps > healer

As clunky as macros are, this is a resigned "well, I'm not very well going to accurately pick a working target every time, nor consistently get it within the 300ms I could gain with actual queueing". In large part, how bad this feels is a key factor in why I'm on hiatus from playing dragoon even casually.

Anyone care to elaborate on how the JP Dragoons are feeling? I've heard they dislike it equally but I figured someone might be able to go in depth. I hope they're more vocal than we are... maybe something will actually be done then

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Originally Posted by Vincent_Mateus

Anyone care to elaborate on how the JP Dragoons are feeling? I've heard they dislike it equally but I figured someone might be able to go in depth. I hope they're more vocal than we are... maybe something will actually be done then

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Let's hope so since what they say is all that matters.

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Originally Posted by Vincent_Mateus

Anyone care to elaborate on how the JP Dragoons are feeling? I've heard they dislike it equally but I figured someone might be able to go in depth. I hope they're more vocal than we are... maybe something will actually be done then

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We're vocal but as Cold mentioned, their words tend to carry more weight.

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Susceptibility to mechanics (jobs affected more by mechanics deal slightly more solo damage, and vice versa

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DRG is arguably the job affected -most- by mechanics but we are one of the weakest DPS, even accounting for our support abilities like Dragon Sight, Battle Litany, and Disembowel. No other job has a fully depreciating resource. SCH and SMN lose Gauge but keep Aetherflow stacks, MCH depreciated best, but they keep ammo, MNK depreciated Greased Lightning but they keep Chakras. We lose both BoTD and Dragon Eyes

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Originally Posted by Vincent_Mateus

Anyone care to elaborate on how the JP Dragoons are feeling? I've heard they dislike it equally but I figured someone might be able to go in depth. I hope they're more vocal than we are... maybe something will actually be done then

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They've been vocal since launch. I could never summarize that much text in a reasonable time.

The gist of the first six reactions to the most recent devpost was "hm, I don't recall signing up for the buffer role", and that was 14 pages back.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

We lose both BoTD and Dragon Eyes

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This is my biggest gripe with it...it takes me long enough to build up the eyes in the first place...only to hit a mechanic (and there's plenty of them) where its a race against the clock, even at the full 30sec with the extra 15sec if you BotD ready to repop...with the 7sec or so it takes to get to WT/FC :( Even with a perfect rotation, its tough (i'm by no means great at the rotation).

I'm finding I miss the old rotations more often than not, it's a shame that i'm struggling to like the job as much as before :/ If we could keep the eyes, then I think that would be a big boon for us.

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Originally Posted by Leananshee

This is my biggest gripe with it...it takes me long enough to build up the eyes in the first place...only to hit a mechanic (and there's plenty of them) where its a race against the clock, even at the full 30sec with the extra 15sec if you BotD ready to repop...with the 7sec or so it takes to get to WT/FC :( Even with a perfect rotation, its tough (i'm by no means great at the rotation).

I'm finding I miss the old rotations more often than not, it's a shame that i'm struggling to like the job as much as before :/ If we could keep the eyes, then I think that would be a big boon for us.

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The old rotations had what our SB lacks: the ability to adapt and not lose out. Nastrond is supposed to be our nuke (lol) yet we're punished it we wiggle too much out of a tight zone. In HW, you could dump BoTD early if needed as there was usually enough room to recover.

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Originally Posted by Frowny

The old rotations had what our SB lacks: the ability to adapt and not lose out.

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Yes, so much this T_T We lose so much, more so if its our fault for missing an attack before having to pull away or thinking we've got enough time to do it and fail anyway. Starting our rotation/eye built from scratch is painful to do and we have to do it often, even if we know we did really good, there are too many opportunities to slip. It's annoying!

Thanks for this. Much appreciated

I feel like I got too used to Dervy and a definitive rotation so many floating around dunno what to use now

Why is GSK so late in that rotation? LotD will take quite a bit longer to obtain and based on the fights we currently have that's not a good thing....

Even a fairly naïve interpretation of potency should indicate that Geirskogul has higher PPS than any other damager mini-system and should therefore go first (220/35 from itself + (320*2)/(4 eyes at 3 eyes per minute -> 80s) => 14.29 pps assuming a mere two Nastronds in LotD which you can probably beat vs. (250*1.3+200)/30 = 14.17 for Jump, the next highest).

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Originally Posted by Leananshee

Yes, so much this T_T We lose so much, more so if its our fault for missing an attack before having to pull away or thinking we've got enough time to do it and fail anyway. Starting our rotation/eye built from scratch is painful to do and we have to do it often, even if we know we did really good, there are too many opportunities to slip. It's annoying!

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Pretty much. In HW I can't count how many times we'd have to tweak but, if you were smart, it'd be ok. Yet in SB if we dare deviate we lose out on our already piss-poor dps (no, despite what Yoshi says NIN brings more yet can do more).

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Originally Posted by Frowny

Pretty much. In HW I can't count how many times we'd have to tweak but, if you were smart, it'd be ok. Yet in SB if we dare deviate we lose out on our already piss-poor dps (no, despite what Yoshi says NIN brings more yet can do more).

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Agreed :( It was heartbreaking to watch my dps hurting so much during repeated runs of OMG (my shortening for Omega) If my Dragon Sight missed/or before I changed it (Thankies Sunny for that Macro example, works a treat!), no matter if I had a perfect run, my dps sucked! like really bad T_T Then when my Dragon Sight was sorted I felt myself feeling cheated and jealous whenever the other melee was beating me and I couldn't help but think "Enjoy that inflated number because that was me..."

Actually, typing this out it sounds a little petty but then makes me think that bizarrely we are needed more than ever to make bad dps look good and good dps look better. While we're there struggling to maintain our prowess we've gotten so used to over the last couple of years.

Has anyone revisited the idea of skipping some 2nd 4th combo (or both) procs? When the time extension will be wasted, and or during LoTD when it cant be extended. All in an attempt to get back to Full Thrust faster. You can easily fit a double FT combo in your LoTD window without dropping any buffs/debuffs. I have been trying to parse this out on my own, and I keep coming up to relatively the same numbers about 3.8k over 2mins(with out infusions) no matter what rotation variations I try. Maybe I need a longer parse IDK but 2mins is about how long it takes to build and use the full LoTD buff.

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Originally Posted by Nerva3xO

Has anyone revisited the idea of skipping some 2nd 4th combo (or both) procs. When the time extension will be wasted, and or during LoTD when it cant be extended. All in an attempt to get back to Full Thrust faster. You can easily fit a double FT combo in your LoTD window without dropping any buffs/debuffs. I have been trying to parse this out on my own, and I keep coming up to relatively the same numbers about 3.8k over 2mins(with out infusions) no matter what rotation variations I try. Maybe I need a longer parse IDK but 2mins is about how long it takes to build and use the full LoTD buff.

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From what i've tested, it kinda screw up your Life Surge alignement with FT, and you have to re-use your BotD afterwards to keep up with your geirskogul CD (Still need to see if using it only during LotD yield better result). Even potency wise, it might look cool to pop another 440 potency in your rotation but you need to go through 150+240 potency before, and it fits barely in your Heavy Thrust window. On the other hand (no skip) you go straight to 290+320 potency, and I feel the 6s left on your HT buff is much welcomed in raid, and allow some room in case you get bumped, stunned, or loose the boss for 1-2s.

This being said, it's based purely on my feeling, i don't claim to have the right answer for this. But i must say, for now, Omega is so much fun for me as DRG. It kind of comfort me with this job.

So I've been away for quite awhile and was just getting started to go through HW content, (I know I'm a ways behind) but obviously when i logged on I saw that a lot of my actions for Dragoon are not there anymore. I was just curious what the best rotation to use would be so I have some idea how to set up my action bars.

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Originally Posted by krall2069

So I've been away for quite awhile and was just getting started to go through HW content, (I know I'm a ways behind) but obviously when i logged on I saw that a lot of my actions for Dragoon are not there anymore. I was just curious what the best rotation to use would be so I have some idea how to set up my action bars.

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At lv 60 is like Heavy Thrust (BfB) Impulse Drive (BL) Disembowel (BotD) Chaos Thrust (Geirskogul) Wheeling Thrust (Jump) True Thrust (DragonFireDive) Vorpal Thrust (Life surge) Full Thrust (Spineshatter Dive)

Every 2 full thrust combos you reaply your Heavy Thrust buff and do a chaos thrust combo.



At lv 70 it changes a bit. Worry about that later.

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Originally Posted by krall2069

So I've been away for quite awhile and was just getting started to go through HW content, (I know I'm a ways behind) but obviously when i logged on I saw that a lot of my actions for Dragoon are not there anymore. I was just curious what the best rotation to use would be so I have some idea how to set up my action bars.

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Your rotation won't really "feel" complete until 70, but from 50 and onwards you want to alternate from Chaos Thrust combo and Full thrust combo, while having heavy thrust up at all times. Once you learn Blood of the Dragon, you want to practice keeping that up at ALL times by using the new combo finishers for both of the combos previously listed. Use your jumps on CD while under BotD and you're pretty much good to go. 60-70 you get the big changes to the job but it requires a mastery of keeping BotD up.

Thanks guys, appreciate the quick replies!

Are you guys alternating FT and CT combos at 70? I find that at 1500 sks, I do HT, CT combo, then FT combo and theres like 14 sec left on CT and 12 sec left on disembowel. Do you clip these by 7-8 sec or let them both drop off for about 6 seconds and do a second FT rotation?

Did some testing last night with an AST and I found a small way to make big changes is getting Spear cards. For those who never play healer and dont know what cards look like (other than balance), Spear is a CD reduction card. Spear reduces our recast timers for jumps, b4b, dragon sight, etc, by 20% (30% if they royal roaded). Since we are waiting on our Jumps for LoTD anyway, this helps us get our Nastrond significantly quicker. Getting a Spear on pull I was able to get my LotD and Nastrond up in just over 50 secs compared to the normal 80 secs.

The downfalls I see are 1) if you get them mid fight, it may throw off alignment of other oGCDs, 2) an AST probably wont Royal Road your Spear (increasing potency) 3) and most AST will burn a Spear for a Balance to give to the SAM.

^ Skill speed goon, new meta?