What I'm noticing with Transpose is you go a long while where you need it, then at the stage I'm at, it's only really there if your MP drained wrong and you can't Bliz3. And later on it'll come back more situational, with specific uses rather than a core function.
Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS
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06-21-2016, 03:11 PMHasrat
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06-21-2016, 08:14 PMrandysquirrelThat's exactly right. If your last fire procs, but you have already started casting Bliz III, when you are back to full MP, you want to transpose (to get into AF1) and then use your fire proc. It does much more under AF1 than it would if you just use directly from UI3.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
As you level higher, you can remove sleep, freeze and bliz2 from your hotbar, these are not used at all outside of PVP.
You can also replace t2 with t3 when you have it. You don't want to hardcast either of these anyway, only t1, and if it procs then use t3 -
06-21-2016, 08:35 PMNekotee
It's funny to see that blizzard 2 is very bad for a black mage but it's his ability
When B2 is wonderful on healer or smn in in aoe DPS for low mana cost
Back in A2S I spam this spell as SCH until my mana dried -
06-21-2016, 09:32 PMMaeroSorry i missed that part, no need to be all rude about it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
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06-22-2016, 12:50 AMGarotte14randysquirrel nailed it. The multiplier for any spells of the opposite stance you are in is 0.7. So if you are in UI3, Fire III's potency is 240*0.7 = 168. But you don't normally transpose before you cast Fire III because it doubles the cast time and costs a ton more mana. However, a Firestarter is free MP and only 2.5s GCD so if you transpose and then use the proc while you're in AF1, its potency is now 240*1.4 = 336.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
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06-22-2016, 01:03 AMMagiusNecrosB2 is still good in situations where a bunch of adds have to be knocked out of something. The Moogles in Sohr Khai for example. Other then that it's main use is Ninja checking nodes in PvP if you play Seal Rock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekotee
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06-22-2016, 01:07 AMGarotte14Yes, I'll use it for instances just like that. The bombs in Brayflox Hard and the tanks that drop on the first boss in Keeper of the Lake.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
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06-22-2016, 08:09 AMFunkyBunchI was merely stating it for reference. You will be level 50 at some point. And level 60. Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
I still see people in dungeons that don't know how to AoE properly as a BLM, so I macroed what I said to you in game to help other BLMS.
I see people casting B3 or B1 during AoE nearly every day.
And the thing you can get from my post is on multiple targets you never use Thunder. It's a net DPS loss even with extra procs. F2 is always better than T-anything with 3+ targets. -
06-22-2016, 08:11 AMFunkyBunchI just use f2... and without out it I have two full hotbars as it is (One for single target and one for multi-target). No room for it anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garotte14
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06-22-2016, 08:32 AMHasratBut what about during UI time? From what I've seen of my current cycle, when Fire drains my MP and I switch, I've typically got time for one or two spells before UI has me filled up again and I swap back. Wouldn't that be the ideal time to toss out Thunders to anything I haven't got it running on yet? I can see where maybe you're better off sticking with F2 and ignoring any Thundercloud proc.Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBunch
Or is such a situation when B2 or Freeze may be worth pulling out during UI (instead of Thunder), just for the extra AoE until you're back to AF?
Editing in to kinda just dump some feedback after a run trying out this new rotation. It definitely feels a bit more intensive. A few waves of F2 in big groups seems to pull some big enmity. I want to keep burning things, but gotta be a little careful there. Made the mistake of tossing T1 on Thundercloud procs a few times, but that's more down to fingers getting used to something new. Gotta find a new way to work Convert and the like in. I've got Fire/Blizzard/Thunder mapped to the NUM pad, which works great, but takes a hand away from mouse for grabbing random off skills.
New question I have. So Swiftcast + Fire 3 seems to be the ideal way to start a fight (plus buffs maybe), but what do you do if Swiftcast is still on cooldown? Is Fire 3 still the best, and you just eat the few extra seconds you have to spend to cast it? Or are there alternate ways to get up to speed? -
06-22-2016, 07:57 PMOmegaStrongtan
Would it be worth it to give my Relict a fie points in Piety?
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06-22-2016, 09:20 PMNekoteeI didn't say it is not usedQuote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
It's more... it's not a dps increasing spell unlike the use for healers
It's use in term of mechanics to bind or damage bump -
06-22-2016, 09:23 PMMaero
No go all spell speed and crit. You would need too much piety to actually see a difference.
As for Hasrat, swiftcast F3 is not at all the way to go, you would be better off at your level to start off with bliz 3>Fire 3> and so on. You could fit in a thunder as well.
Your F3 cast time will be fast after a Ice 3 and most of us had done so at your level.
Oh and actually for your aoe rotation if you use a thunder on a enemy at the beginning, any thundercloud procs on other targets (up to 3) are a dps gain, not a loss like some seem to think. 4 + mobs however your best bet is to stick with F2. -
06-22-2016, 11:36 PMrandysquirrelDo not wait to be full MP again. Flare then transpose, as soon as you get a tick of MP, begin casting fireIII. By the time it has finished casting you will have got another tick of MP. Then fire2, fire2 flare. and repeatQuote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
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06-23-2016, 12:04 AMGarotte14I'm not trying to sound like a broken record or anything, but seriously take a thorough read of the new Black Mage guide I've posted. All of the answers to any questions you have are in there. From level 1-60, how to use cooldowns, different rotations, etc. I'm very glad you have lots of questions because it means you care and I know you won't be one of those scrubs in DF that doesn't give a F&$%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
With that being said. If you are Pre level 50, you can throw out a Thunder spell or two when you are in UI for AoE, but when you get Flare, you will stop doing this. The reason is, Flare is 1200+ Potency on 3 enemies and 2100+ on 6 enemies. You want to hit this spell as often as possible.
As far as Enmity, thats not you're fault. If you are pulling hate during AoE, thats the tanks fault. The only thing you can do is just switch to single target at that point and try again on the next dungeon with a better tank.
You should not be using swiftcast on Fire III. Swiftcast has many uses, but using it on Fire III is extremely situational. I can think of one time that I do this. Swiftcast should be used for movement, or on Flare since its a long cast or in your opener. Convert should always be paired with Raging Strikes. They have the same cooldown, so you should be using raging strikes and then convert when low on MP to get more Fires out under Raging Strikes. -
06-23-2016, 12:47 AMFunkyBunchIf you do Transpose you can immediately start casting F3, don't wait to get full MP for AoE. I wouldn't throw in a Thunder as it's just going to make bad habits and you'll be 50 soon enough and your time is still better trying to max the time you spend casting F2. (Every Thunder is NOT an F2 so DPS loss).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
BLM is SUPER bursty. Especially with undergeared tanks, they may have a hard time holding hate. That's why Quelling Strikes from ARC/BRD is suggested.
But with a good and properly geared tank you won't pull hate. I can rip hate away from the best tank I know, if I really want to, BUT I have to pop all my cooldowns (raging strikes, swiftcast, convert AND use an MP potion) to get a third flare going.
Swiftcast has a number of uses, but to start a fight isn't one of them. You can start casting 2.5 seconds before the tank engages and can save your swiftcast for when you lose your AF stacks, or movement or flare or to squeeze an extra F4 in when you min/max Enochian at 60. -
06-23-2016, 07:09 AMHasrat
No worries. Extra questioning was more in response to mixed advice. But I'm kinda seeing where it's all coming from now. Advice seems to be, against large groups, spend as little time as possible in UI, switch back immediately to get back into Fire 2, nevermind not being at full MP. I can kinda see where that's more ideal. It feels a little wrong, but there's a logic to it. (all this until I get to Flare, which will shake things up again a little bit)
As for Swiftcast, it might be a bit before I feel able to juggle enough things to be able to move and pop that for any given spell. The more I see of this, the more I think controller might be super useful here. Or at least a proper mouse with a few extra buttons for these things. -
06-23-2016, 08:27 AMFunkyBunchIt's counter intuitive for sure! But it makes a HUGE difference in DPS output.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
If you can master the F3-F2-F2-F2-F2-Transpose-F3-F2-F2-F2-Transpose you'll be better than most mages for dungeons out there by the time you're 50.
Just swap the last F2 for Flare on each section when you are 50 and you'll be golden.
In the beginning I would use swiftcast when you lose all your AF stacks.Quote:
As for Swiftcast, it might be a bit before I feel able to juggle enough things to be able to move and pop that for any given spell. The more I see of this, the more I think controller might be super useful here. Or at least a proper mouse with a few extra buttons for these things.
I play on PS4 so a controller is all I know how to play with lol.
My controller has all the skills I want to use on movement mapped to O,X,[], and /\ as well as the skills I use more often. (Just different hotbars, I have a movement hotbar, a single target hotbar and a multi-target hotbar). -
06-23-2016, 09:04 AMHasratThis is a little confusing, but I think it's maybe because you're used to having Flare draining your MP, requiring that Transpose. Until I get to that point, I think I'm still good using B3 instead, wouldn't I? Your rotation has me switch to one stack of UI, which can't possibly recharge me enough for a good F2 wave, could it? With B3, I at least typically get one good tick (or lament completely missing the tick as I immediately switch with F3, sigh) for a decent chunk of MP to burn with. I can see where you're coming from, your method sounds like it should get back to AoE F2 faster, but I'm doubtful. F3 has its full cast time (plus the tiny delay from Transpose), but while I can run B3-F3, both cast times are halved, so effectively spending the same amount of time getting back to 3 stacks of AF with (I assume) greater MP recovery.Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBunch
Will have to keep it in mind for Flare, though, when B3 is no longer an option (and slightly irrelevant as the whole point is to Flare as much as possible, sounds like). -
06-23-2016, 06:08 PMrandysquirrel
Take some of the advice in this thread with a pinch of salt. Some of it is pretty decent, but some of it comes from people I'm not sure have ever even played BLM from what they say lol
Garotte's guide was pretty good last time I looked at it -
06-24-2016, 12:48 AMFunkyBunchYou could be correct, I was meaning specifically so you develop the muscle memory, I don't do under level 50 content anymore with my BLM (haven't for almost a year) so I'm just theorycrafting. Maybe even badly. That said, by now you should be pretty close to 50! In the end the up to 50 rotation is not super important because once you get to 50 you will never need to use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasrat
The main difference between going B3-F3 versus transpose-F3 is that you are guaranteed a mana tick by hard casting F3, but now that I think about it, it sounds straight up worse to transpose if you don't have Flare. Oops. -
07-01-2016, 03:55 AMpaoweeotter
What do you guys normally Sharpcast, Fire I or Thunder?
Also.. is it a DPS gain to use Thunder I between Blizzard III and IV each time? I normally only use Thunder when Ley Lines is up but aside from that i go straight to Blizzard III-IV-Fire III-Fire IV - etc. -
07-01-2016, 04:23 AMFunkyBunchIf level 60 content, sharpcast F1, otherwise T1.Quote:
Originally Posted by paoweeotter
It's a DPS gain to cast T1 if it won't cause you to drop Enochian. You shouldn't have enough time to go B3-B4-F3 and still have full MP. So you'd be waiting to cast F3. -
07-01-2016, 06:16 AMpaoweeotteroH OK. It's just the fflogs ive been looking at from top black mages, i don't see them consistently casting Thunder 1. If they did it should have close to the same # of Blizzard III or IV casts if they always used Thunder during UI.Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBunch
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07-01-2016, 06:46 AMFunkyBunchNo if they get a proc they'll have a T3 instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by paoweeotter
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07-01-2016, 07:08 AMMagiusNecros
I only sharp F1 if LL and Convert is up. Other wise I save it for Thunder procs. Can't remember if another T3 is a gain at 18 or 12 seconds left though.
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07-01-2016, 10:15 AMJudge_XeroI think the time when you use a T3 proc changes depending on your SS value. But <12s is the baseline.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
~1100 SS moves it up a tick. -
07-03-2016, 03:18 AMOmegaStrongtan
Any Tipps for good DPS on Nidhogg EX?
His dives in P1 makes me lose my buff for sure and it isn't ready again when he is back. Any suggestions here? -
07-03-2016, 06:34 AMNekotee
Even if you reload enochian right before his jump
You won't keep it at his landing
Because niddhogg take like 26 sec for both dive and landing before being targetable
So nop
The only thing is giving your best at the beginning using enochian, sharpcast and swiftcast
Because all will be reload for the adds
Well that how it work for me ! -
07-03-2016, 05:05 PMOmegaStrongtan
I just found out: If I use enochian a few seconds pre-pull I can still do a full fire rotation and enochian will be ready again once Nidhogg is done diving :>
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07-03-2016, 05:18 PMHasrat
Ran a dungeon today with one of those BLMs that think F3/B3 are upgraded spells so spam them all the time. Didn't have time to just stop the run and educate, but at least got him to stick around at the end to go over some of the basics. Feels like a good deed done to at least get them a little closer to better output.
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07-04-2016, 06:06 PMCBellzYup, it's about 7 seconds prepull that you should pop enochian. One last tip to maintain 100% eno uptime is to press enochian right as it comes off cd in the tower phase so you can keep it up with a swifcast b3->b4 once he drops back down and it'll still be ready again for the final phaseQuote:
Originally Posted by Nekotee
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07-05-2016, 09:46 AMsmallbeach
REAL PRO TIPS for Nidhogg EX:
10sec prepul : Sharp + enochian (this way u have it right when he goes down)
P1 : dont bother refreshing eno after your opener, do sharp opener with flare (or without if u get a fire proc), and then at the time you should B3, DONT, use flare instead and transpose + blizard + scathe.
P1 part 2 (nidhog come back after dodge phase) : pop sprint right when he lands, this way you'll lose less time moving for hot wings/hot tails.
P3 ( add phase ) : DONT SKIP THUNDER, even if you have to do it after B4 while u already have full mana, JUST DO IT (on a non focused target so u get full duration on thunder) thunder proc makes u rly strong on multitarget, you can also do one flare if the 3 are packed but dont do aoe rotation. -
07-05-2016, 09:46 AMsmallbeach
P4 : Nidhog comesback, go in the south east or west of the area and do your opener (place yourself on south of your leylines for less movement), if you have no AOE on you perfect, you can just chill in leylines.
If you have one, move back so that a part of your leylines stay clean. To be honest i dont bother avoiding bleed, i just finish my F4 in the puddle, then move back to leylines while doing swift cast flare. Let healer deals with it its an easy job to heal that -
07-05-2016, 09:47 AMsmallbeach
blue/red phase : CLIP YOUR ENOCHIAN, when ? right at the end of the first red/blue tether, why ? Because this way you gonna have enochian ready for the 4 towers, why again ? Use it right when the tower spawn during the dodge phase so that when nidhog comes back, you can B3 - B4, and do a real fire rotation instead of spaming F1 like a monkey lvl 50. The point of this is that your enochian will be ready for the start of final phase :)
for final phase i havent real tips, just keep sharp cast for when u gonna have to move (outside of opener), and dont skip thunder here, procs can save your dps, weave sprint when u have a proc and gonna move.
well that's it, i wanted to do quick tips list but ended up describing what i do for the whol fight kappa, i'm not the best blm but i do pretty good on nidhog so i hope it helps -
07-07-2016, 01:45 AMNovaLevossida
How detrimental do you guys feel it is to use swiftcast in your opener as opposed to using an opener without it and saving it for utility / emergency refreshes? I've been out of the loop for a while and didn't realize we had some new openers available (had been using the Fire 3 opener). I've been grinding Aetherochemical for a bit for the anima weapon and I found having swiftcast available was very nice for just before when you needed to hop into the orbs to avoid his status effect AoE. Swiftcast allowed me to squeeze an extra Fire IV in before transposing and hopping in the orb. I'm sure there's quite a few fights where you could use it to squeeze in extra damage before a boss jumps away or use it for a quick enochian refresh before a jump if you're going to cut the timing close.
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07-07-2016, 03:17 AMpaoweeotterOMG thank you! I feel so ashamed spamming Fire I during the start of that final phase hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by smallbeach
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07-07-2016, 03:27 AMGarotte14Depends on the fight. Using Swiftcast during your opener is optimal because it's more PPS, plus it allows you to weave convert. 9/10 I would recommend to use it. It's only 60 seconds. One example of where I save Swiftcast and omit it from my opener is in A8S. About 30 seconds into the fight, there is a DPS check where you need to kill the pentacle. It's a tight check and you could get targeted by an AoE and then after you move, immediately get targeted by mega beam; forcing you to move again, causing you to potentially drop AF or Enochian and not meet the DPS check. This is an example of where its beneficial of saving Swiftcast. But most of the time you should try to fit it into your opener. Your opener should be built for every fight. It won't always be the same. Maximize uptime. Whatever helps do that, is the right choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaLevossida
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07-09-2016, 08:46 PMMrMarnel
After a boss jumps back in the room / an invulnerability phase ends, assuming all your 60sec cooldowns are up, is it better to start with Sharp > Fire I > Eno > Firestarter or (Swiftcast?) Fire III?
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07-09-2016, 10:35 PMGarotte14I think this is debatable. It costs less MP and is more Potent, but takes longer. I personally prefer to do it that way, but it really depends on the situation and also what is coming up relatively soon in the fight. If the boss will be untargetable for < 12s, I will always make sure that blizzard III or Blizzard will be my last hit. Example: Onslaughter jumps -> Blaster drops. During Perpetual Ray, boss is at 0% HP. I will spam blizz 1 so that when Blaster drops, I have 3 seconds left on Umbral Ice. This allows me to fast cast Fire III and use the Sharpcast for movement. Another example is the end of Phase 1 in A3S. If the last hit is a blizzard spell, UI will still be barely up when the hand becomes targetable in phase 2; allowing me to use sharpcast for wash away. But also In A8S, when brute justice drops, I can hit sprint > sharp > F1. Then as I'm running into position, I can Enochian > Raging Strikes > Firestarter and then plop Ley lines when I'm in position. Overall, I think if you aren't in any stance, it is better to Sharp > F1, but honestly its just on a case by case basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMarnel