Dark Knight Megathread

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I'm actually happy for the people who never knew how jobs played before ShB, they live in blissful ignorance of what we had and probably get more enjoyment out of the current game.

I wish I couldn't see the absolutely awful direction that XIV's gameplay has been heading in for two expansions now.

It's going in the same direction that made me quit WoW in Legion after 12 years, just harder and faster than WoW ever did.

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I hate the fact that i have to agree so much with this
Sometime i wish i could completely forget the older iterations of Dark Knight

One random thing that i often recall was , for me at least, the fact that dungeons at the time were enjoyable when playing this class, especially in stormblood
And while i often prefered the heavensward version (maybe it was nostalgia goggles, or not, who knows), i really enjoyed going in dungeon (i know, dungeons are not raids or hard content so it doesn't count, sorry in advance) in stormblood with how the dark knight abilities and the mana/blood gauge interacted so well together.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I'm actually happy for the people who never knew how jobs played before ShB, they live in blissful ignorance of what we had and probably get more enjoyment out of the current game.

I wish I couldn't see the absolutely awful direction that XIV's gameplay has been heading in for two expansions now.

It's going in the same direction that made me quit WoW in Legion after 12 years, just harder and faster than WoW ever did.

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Originally Posted by Kaixern

I hate the fact that i have to agree so much with this
Sometime i wish i could completely forget the older iterations of Dark Knight

One random thing that i often recall was , for me at least, the fact that dungeons at the time were enjoyable when playing this class, especially in stormblood
And while i often prefered the heavensward version (maybe it was nostalgia goggles, or not, who knows), i really enjoyed going in dungeon (i know, dungeons are not raids or hard content so it doesn't count, sorry in advance) in stormblood with how the dark knight abilities and the mana/blood gauge interacted so well together.

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This is something I hear all the time from old DRK mains, and it reminds me of a complaint that I often hear in regards to job changes: It really doesn't feel like these decisions are being made by designers who are dedicated players of the job in question. Like, I've never met a StB DRK main who didn't LOVE Dark Arts, but I hear the reason they removed it was because it felt "spammy"? But I got the feeling that was kind of the point?

I feel the same way about what we saw in the trailer. They're making all these changes to reduce how busy the burst is- isn't that what half the fun of the job is currently? "DRK is too busy" is the kind of complaint I could only imagine someone who is new to the job making. Surely any avid DRK main on the dev team would agree. So who's in charge of these decisions?

I think it depends on what iterations you've played. In Heavensward, DRK was generally viewed as fast paced (job APM was on par with NIN) and challenging (widely viewed as the most difficult tank, and one of the more challenging jobs in general). During the transition into Stormblood, the newly introduced role action system resulted in the DRK losing a lot of actions that it had previously. The job was deliberately set at a disadvantage in both DPS (DRK was behind by about 500 dps on some fights) and utility (no job-specific raidwide mitigation at a time where Veil and Shake gave significant bonuses to LB generation) from the onset in order to move from a predominantly DRK/WAR meta to a PLD/WAR meta. And the developers responded to complaints about MP management and job difficulty that had come up during Heavensward by removing the drain from Darkside. This in turn had a knock-on effect to Dark Arts, leading to DA being weaved on most GCDs. Interestingly, the general perspectives at the time were that Stormblood was a simplified version of Heavensward DRK, with less buttons, less damage, less burst, and less utility. It was simultaneously viewed as low skill and ineffective.

It's kind of hilarious, because this entire forum was up in arms against the changes made to DRK during the transition into Stormblood. Someone who was just starting the game during Stormblood and who wasn't aware of the raid related disadvantages would probably look back fondly on it, however. In a few years I suppose we'll see mention of the 'good old days' of Shadowbringers.

Well I mean if you look at it through that Lense Dark Knight was the best tank of Endwalker, being the go to pick for 2 of the 3 tiers, completely fine in the 3rd tier, and the best tank in both ultis.
And I'll be honest I think a lot of the issues people cite about dark knight aren't even issues with the job directly, but rather the game as a whole.

It's much more than just raid effectiveness. It's the combination of being able to invest effort into a job aesthetic that you enjoy, have a clear skill/performance differential that rewards time investment, and a sense of value for playing well.

In Heavensward, DRK was never most dominant pick (that goes to WAR, which was mandatory in every comp). If you wanted to play DRK, you did need to know how to play PLD as well for certain fights. But there was a clear skill differential, it was viewed as not just the most challenging tank but one of the most challenging jobs overall, and you were valued for being able to play it well. I don't think that you could have asked for anything more.

DRK should keep Plunge, but treat it like an actual attack like it's a DRG jump attack.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

DRK should keep Plunge, but treat it like an actual attack like it's a DRG jump attack.

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That be an elegant solution for people who miss the animation, especially if it was just a 30s GCD that was meant to be used for damage in a burst window.
But I'm going to be honest, I want a no damage gap closer as a whole and I like this change.

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Originally Posted by noumen0nn

Like, I've never met a StB DRK main who didn't LOVE Dark Arts, but I hear the reason they removed it was because it felt "spammy"? But I got the feeling that was kind of the point?

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The problem with old Dark Arts was that it was mindless spammy, not merely spammy. A bunch of our defensive abilities got stronger for it, but aside from Abyssal Drain and to an extent Dark Passenger, it was a waste to do so when the alternative is using it on something that gets +140 potency because encounters rarely if ever called for improving non damage abilities. And then all the devs took from that was not "give us a reason to Dark Arts our defenses" but "get rid of Dark Arts and just bake it in since that's all we do anyway".

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Originally Posted by Oizen

That be an elegant solution for people who miss the animation, especially if it was just a 30s GCD that was meant to be used for damage in a burst window.
But I'm going to be honest, I want a no damage gap closer as a whole and I like this change.

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Removing the potency makes a gap closer completely thoughtless, you don't even have to plan them out in the few fights that knock you back or has bosses move.
No, it will just always be available. I don't like that. They could have given us a new dps OGCD to fill up the gap but they didn't. They did give Warrior a bunch of new OGCD's though.
With all of these changes, like blood gauge removed from LS, 123 consolidated into 1 button, blood weapon and delirium merged, and Plunge removed, it looks like Warrior will finally not be the most braindead job in the game anymore, it will be Dark knight.

I probably won't be playing tank for the next 3 years.

Because it keeps happening... I wish there was some kind of failsafe for living dead for healers that just don't pay attention in dungeons.

Few have those giant pulls where hey I can always just mix living dead somewhere in the chaos. Psyche they healed it to expiration. Lovely 5 minute cooldown for a skill that, in that moment, did absolutely nothing.