Does Square intend to address Market botting?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If you want to stop cheating, parents and the education system need to teach that cheating is wrong to children when they're still young and the lesson will sink in.

If you want to stop cheating, all games whether multii-player or single player need to stop incorporating cheat codes and allowing mods that players can use to avoid playing the game as intended. That cheat codes even exist in games teaches that's it's okay to cheat.

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This is a utopian's hope. It sounds nice, but it will never ever happen and is not a viable solution to the immediate problem.

I do agree that this stuff eats way too much of my time and energy as I've become increasingly frustrated by how poor my sales have become. I did know the golden days after 5.4's launch wouldn't last forever, but sales are still very strong. It's just that it's these market botters who are getting all those sales because I can't auto-update my prices every five minutes like they can. These bots are directly harming my gameplay experience of wishing to sell lots of items and making a gil swimming pool for myself someday. The worst part is I tend to avoid overpricing stuff anyway, so the argument that the bots "keep prices down" is a complete farce. I was doing that anyway, and still am. It's the bots who drag prices back to 300k+ for items that were under 100k. I'm the one who brings it back down to "acceptable" levels, which those bots then take advantage of.

But the fact that it's cheaters who are doing this and how SE seems completely unwilling to remove them that makes this as obnoxious as it is. I've already moved past hope that SE will enforce their own rules without some major disruption that they cannot ignore. Something that affects not just a few grumpy crafters like us, but a significant chunk of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Yureina

This is a utopian's hope. It sounds nice, but it will never ever happen and is not a viable solution to the immediate problem.

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Oh, I know it will probably never happen. Cheating is too entrenched in society, especially over things considered unimportant like games. There are those who like to earn what they have - and those who will use any means to get it, especially if they don't want to go to the effort of earning it.

The problem is finding that viable solution to the bot problem.

SE is willing to ban cheaters. They post the weekly ban notice, which does occasionally list a ban other than for RMT related activity. We've seen the results when players complain about their account suspensions and bans. We've even seen posters in this thread state suspected bots on their local marketboard disappeared (just to be replaced by new bots a week or two later).

I think the problem might lie more in what they've set as the benchmark for sufficient proof. I know a lot of what I've seen listed in this thread and others as "proof" isn't any such thing at all. I could do the same things listed manually if I was inclined to, somewhat tedious perhaps but certainly possible. It doesn't mean the suspected players aren't botting, just what was listed wouldn't be sufficient evidence by itself to warrant an account suspension or ban.

SE can't go banning players out of hand just on suspicion without raising a huge backlash in the player community. There will always be that fear of a false positive leading to a player's own account getting banned and the fallout if and when they do happen.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

And how exactly is that bad?
Honest question.

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How is it bad that the market has been flooded, and cracked?

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Originally Posted by Angelhearth

How is it bad that the market has been flooded, and cracked?

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Yes.
I understand how these things are bad in the real world, but... I'll be blunt... I can be a little dense.
I honestly do not understand how a crashed market in 14 is an objectively bad thing.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Yes.
I understand how these things are bad in the real world, but... I'll be blunt... I can be a little dense.
I honestly do not understand how a crashed market in 14 is an objectively bad thing.

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I think for the average person who is crafting, it is bad because of a couple of factors.
1. to craft the top gear pentamelding is almost a must have. depending on rng this is usually quite a few million if you need to buy the materia
2. if you plan on selling anything, to beat the bots you need to stand on the market all day

so, selling things for higher means you recoup the money spent on materia or crafting materials faster. some are just after mounds of gil as Joy thinks, but I think most think first about making back what they spent initially. for them, the lower the prices, the longer it takes obviously. if you get tons of materia or crafting materials free, its no big what the market price is as its all pure profit. most actual non bot crafters though, arent at that stage.

so, with the time investment needed to sell before the bots (if they are that serious about selling), the cost to craft end level gear materia wise, a crashed market can be.. daunting. the "I spent 11 million stuffing in matera and I can only get 53k per thing I am selling???" would be a bit crushing

thats my thoughts on why it could be bad anyway for average crafters

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I think for the average person who is crafting, it is bad because of a couple of factors.
1. to craft the top gear pentamelding is almost a must have. depending on rng this is usually quite a few million if you need to buy the materia
2. if you plan on selling anything, to beat the bots you need to stand on the market all day

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Sure, but the examples they gave (the Alexander mini and stuffed alpha) were items flooding the market because retainers now bring them back. Not crafted stuff.
(Also materia is so easy to come by these days I don't see why anyone would need to spend millions with proper prep unless the RNG seriously hoses them, but that's a separate issue)
But that aside...

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

so, selling things for higher means you recoup the money spent on materia or crafting materials faster. some are just after mounds of gil as Joy thinks, but I think most think first about making back what they spent initially. for them, the lower the prices, the longer it takes obviously. if you get tons of materia or crafting materials free, its no big what the market price is as its all pure profit. most actual non bot crafters though, arent at that stage.

so, with the time investment needed to sell before the bots (if they are that serious about selling), the cost to craft end level gear materia wise, a crashed market can be.. daunting. the "I spent 11 million stuffing in matera and I can only get 53k per thing I am selling???" would be a bit crushing

thats my thoughts on why it could be bad anyway for average crafters

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So a crashed market is bad because you struggle to break even in a saturated market.
Fair... but the flip side is that an oversaturated market seems to overall be a boon in this game.

If the most extreme thing happens (like it did for me) and you go all in, overextend your gil, go broke, and can't make it back in that market... do you suffer?
This happened to me when I tried to go big in the Orchestrion Scroll market, and it sucked to be broke, but your character doesn't have bills to pay.
They don't have to pay any kind of upkeep like paying for groceries or gasoline or rent.
So not having millions of gil doesn't seriously inhibit you like being broke IRL. You can't starve or lose your home. You just... can't buy glamour items and pots for a bit (slightly reductionist, I know).
And gil is so easy to come by that if you do spend all your gil pentamelding it's easy to bounce back, especially since having pentamelded gear opens so many markets and opportunities for you.

Not having money in 14 was simply a mild inconvenience while I bounced back, and in the meantime if a market is oversaturated that just means it's better at moving product... which is what markets are there to do.
And there's where the boon comes in.
I'm happy when I see a crashed market because it means for myself and the rest of the community that the item(s) in that market are more readily and easily available.



So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like in FF14 a crashed market is:

-- Inconvenient to some (if they've over extended)

-- Annoying to others (people who already at least broke even and the lower prices are challenging further profits)

-- But it's beneficial to literally everyone else and helps keep the game healthy and keeps items/products freely circulating.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Yes.
I understand how these things are bad in the real world, but... I'll be blunt... I can be a little dense.
I honestly do not understand how a crashed market in 14 is an objectively bad thing.

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Ahh, you have a life outside the game, I figure? :P

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Originally Posted by Angelhearth

Ahh, you have a life outside the game, I figure? :P

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... yes?
I'm sorry, I don't see how that relates.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

... yes?
I'm sorry, I don't see how that relates.

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And you don't understand humor. Hmm

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Originally Posted by Angelhearth

And you don't understand humor. Hmm

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Do you not have any thoughts on the post then?