SAM out classing all other DPS

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Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

I feel bad for replying to this, but this exact philosophy is dogshit anyway.

First of all ,why would you just completely change the paradigms of the class every expansion? Is the next expansion gonna have MNK be the 'support melee'? I've never really liked the idea of synergy anyway. *snippers*

Samurai on the other hand is fine. Regardless of how good or bad samurai is it will always be popular due to the nature of the class (weeb/rper/edge lord bait) but I think it could stay as it is.

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*blinks*

Dogshit?* Isn't that a pretty harsh dismissal of the only logical way of balance our damage dealers?


Now, I get your frustration with the paradigm shift. I've argued (in WoW) until I was completely worn out that reinventing the wheel every expansion is a bad use of developer time. "Get your classes balanced then give us exciting challenges from now on" is my refrain.

Synergy is one of those things which both adds to the game and subtracts. It's cool to see what players can come up with, but at the same time, it gets folks thinking too much about the meta instead of how to play well with the party you've got.

Now, I am going to politely disagree with your statement that people don't want to play a support damage dealer. People have different tastes. Some love being samurai, others like dragoons, while other enjoy red mages. A lot has to do with class fantasy, such as those weebs and edge lord baits* you mention but others just fall in love with how the job plays or what they bring to the table. I love dragoon and am leveling it in conjunction with my other jobs on my alt, Nonomy Nomy.

*You have a lot of attitude. Sheesh.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Stuff

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It seems you missed my point regarding the support DPS. I specifically said that nobody choose DRG because they wanted to play a support melee as that was never the class's point nor function. Typically that was the role of NIN and from your reply you clearly understand what it feels like so I'm not going to continue with this point.

Now specifically regarding utility vs dps: No I don't actually think its a good way of balancing because the whole idea of making a job pseudo support means that it starts to become a game of dependencies; case in point look at the whole BRD/MCH needing DRG to reach full potential and the fact that astro now is so coveted because of the nonsense that is The Balance. Now it is slightly different for a healer as something like The Balance is offensive utility which is provided from something that otherwise isn't supposed to focus on doing damage but now imagine if something like DRG or BRD had balance then what kind of game would we be playing?

The fflogs 'game' is already bad enough with the epeening and the elitism from people who aren't even good in the first place yet get a superiority complex because they 'saw it on fflogs' so imagine what it would be like if they started to take the 'utility' further and gave classes something like the balance it would turn into something similar to what the 3.4 meta was where it was just 'stack as much offensive utility as possible cause them multipliers' and the casters and MNK became memes. I honestly think DPS should just have 1 sort of party buff maximum because they seem to be unable to correctly balance classes damage vs utility. Based on your comments on synergy it's obvious you understand this also.

Also how is that having an attitude? It is completely true. This is a roleplaying game, a Japanese one with pretty catgirls and shit at that and it attracts a very predictable demographic. Look at the popularity of SAM/RDM or hell even NIN compared to MCH. SAM pretty much panders to their every want so even if it wasn't top DPS then it will still have people playing it.

SE over did it with the dps buffs, and with the new classes Sam and Rdm. They are both too OP.

The game needs a overhole

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

SE over did it with the dps buffs, and with the new classes Sam and Rdm. They are both too OP.

The game needs a overhole

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Sry, the touchscreen messed with me.

The game need a overhaul of balancing of the classes. And if Sam wants to remain top dps by such a large margin, it should be more difficult to get out good numbers and be punished more.

Considering the dps difference between a good SAM and a bad one is upwards of 1700-2000, i'd say its not that easy.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Considering the dps difference between a good SAM and a bad one is upwards of 1700-2000, i'd say its not that easy.

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Anyone can make this argument with any class. I still see Summoners doing sub 1500 DPS and NINs doing 1300~ DPS at level 70.

Yet NIN is constantly called one of the easiest classes in this game.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Considering the dps difference between a good SAM and a bad one is upwards of 1700-2000, i'd say its not that easy.

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This is less about difficulty of the class and more of how good someone is at the job.
It is very easy to get high numbers on SAM and anyone parsing that low is either underleveled or bad.
SAM still deals the highest parse in damage by far compared to all other classes at the moment. The fact that there are also so many high number parses and many of those same people saying how easy or braindead the class is still goes to show the class is very much easy and execution is not very challenging as well.

it really isn't easy to get high numbers, esspecially when theres a lot going on.
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Originally Posted by Roshin

it really isn't easy to get high numbers, esspecially when theres a lot going on.
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You can say this about literally any class in the game. The difference is fundamentally how a class is able to deal with it as well, to which you can make your argument. SAM has plenty of things to deal with down time, and never has an issue with resources unless you somehow can't keep up with it(to which the argument is how bad your awareness is.) You can never lose Kenki or your Sen because of mechanics, and even if a fight were to somehow disrupt your flow, Hagakure converts your Sen to more Kenki, which is never bad unless you have an overflow (You should generally be in the position to where you shouldn't) and puts you back into neutral and also helps you avoid overlapping sen when reapplying buffs and DoT. Your buff durations last much longer than many of the buffs in the game that demand you to maintain, to which MNK players will smack you for not appreciating considering they have to manage GL in half that time, and also can't convert them into another resource. Neither can DRG, and NIN dodges a bullet slightly considering their long duration on Huton as well as there is very little in the way of recasting it should you need in the moment it is unavoidable, or gauge whenever your CDs will be coming back and so you can just reapply Huton back to 70 seconds and have your mudras ready when you get back.

Your DoT is a full minute and thus is easier to keep an eye on compared to other things such as demolish and Chaos Thrust, even in the midst of mechanics.

All of these examples come from all of these jobs going through as much of the same thing as possible.

Well said GunZ. Basically SAM has it all. ALL OF IT. Highest dps, long lasting buff/dot, no expiring resource, down time mitigator, ramp up speed up moves (PB: 180s, Nastrond: 120ish sec, Meikyo: 80s), 1 additional self heal over nin and goon, not a worry in mind about mechanics... lets make this whole thing simpler and delete all other classes.