More Horizontal Progression please

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Grinding Tokens usually gets easier and easier the more powerful you are. However the issue is the power curve is so low that you don't gain that much power from new gear.. so its hard.

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Yet you're heavily in the corner of horizontal progression of gear, where the power curve is practically non-existent.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Leveling is usually easier, because in other games you can have friends powerlevel you. Not in this game.

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You can absolutely power level someone in this game.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

It may be shorter or faster yes. However its not nearly as fun as pulling tons of monsters and destroying them.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

grinding 99999999999999999999999999 fates because its the only good way to gain experience is not challenging. Its completely mindless and zergy.

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Pulling tons of monsters and destroying them = fun.
Doing the exact same thing in FATES = mindless and zergy.

Okay then.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

Yet you're heavily in the corner of horizontal progression of gear, where the power curve is practically non-existent.



You can absolutely power level someone in this game.





Pulling tons of monsters and destroying them = fun.
Doing the exact same thing in FATES = mindless and zergy.

Okay then.

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The challenge is the fact that pulling tons of monsters has a threat and fear to it. Fates have no threat and fear. There is a huge difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atychiphobia

Horizontal Progression can have a power curve. There are just many different power curves, not just one.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

The challenge is the fact that pulling tons of monsters has a threat and fear to it.

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I feel like if you're at the point where you're able to "destroy" a "ton of monsters", they're probably no longer a the point where they're a threat to you. I will concede that FATEs (when handled by a group of players) aren't dangerous.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Horizontal Progression can have a power curve. There are just many different power curves, not just one.

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I'd say if you have a bigger power curve than you'd have with FFXIV's vertical gear progression, that sounds like it's not horizontal gear progression, but I'm not going to argue terminology again beyond that thought.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

I feel like if you're at the point where you're able to "destroy" a "ton of monsters", they're probably no longer a the point where they're a threat to you. I will concede that FATEs (when handled by a group of players) aren't dangerous.

Not true. If you don't pay attention and use your skills wisely they will melt you immediately.

I'd say if you have a bigger power curve than you'd have with FFXIV's vertical gear progression, that sounds like it's not horizontal gear progression, but I'm not going to argue terminology again beyond that thought.

Horizontal simply means more options. The power of those options can be in question. You can mix both Horizontal and Veritcal Progression.

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You are not wrong though. You just seem inexperienced with such playstyles. Put on level 50 gear and pull everything up to the boss in DD. You will get an idea what mass pulling is like in FFXIV.

If they are not melting you though they are probably not worth the experience. Mass pulling is HIGH RISK, HIGH REWARD.

Contested Dungeons are high risk, high reward.
Die and you start all over again and lose progress through the dungeon. You might be set back 20-30 minutes. In Death Watch Bunker for example the mobs will destroy you if they are attacking squishies and all NPCs are ranged fighters. So instead of gathering up nicely they shoot you from across the room. You have to kill bosses (which have fast respawns.) and do ring events to get keys to get deeper in the dungeon. You also have to watch other players because if they kill out of order the npcs and enemies can spawn right ontop of your party, and if your being attacked by more then a few you wipe.

You also have a mission in it where you ESCORT a low level crafter (which can also die easilly.) to the bottom of Death Watch Bunker to craft Mandalorian Armor, each piece has to be crafted whilst your in a room filled with droids which constantly attack you until you wipe. The longer the crafter takes the more enemies fight you.

Only a few characters on the server had Mandalorian Armor, it was a trophy because it was so hard to get. The content lasted for YEARS. =3

There are also secret areas inside the bunker you can unlock to make easier if you take crafters down with you. You also have to craft the armor afterwards after you learn the schematic. One schematic can only craft 1 piece of armor of course.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

a) how would you know?
b) even if it's true, it makes it difficult to have serious conversations with you when you insist on taking such a condescending tone all the time.



My point was that if they are (capable of) melting you and it's a high risk situation, I don't know that most people would describe that as "destroy"ing whatever you're fighting. That carries a connotation of just slaughtering your way through whatever you're fighting with no challenge.

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You got me there, I changed my wording. I am very sick right now.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

You are just inexperienced with such playstyles.

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a) how would you know?
b) even if it's true, it makes it difficult to have serious conversations with you when you insist on taking such a condescending tone all the time.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

If they are not melting you though they are probably not worth the experience. Mass pulling is HIGH RISK, HIGH REWARD.

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My point was that if they are (capable of) melting you and it's a high risk situation, I don't know that most people would describe that as "destroy"ing whatever you're fighting. That carries a connotation of just slaughtering your way through whatever you're fighting with no challenge.

This conversation #smh way off topic and getting facetious.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Dynamis at the end of the day is basically a raid.

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He's talking about zones like this:


http://eq2.zam.com/db/zone.html?eq2z...c7ad543df94021

Whole zone is a dungeon, with multiple groups in it. All bosses "can" spawn, but often when the boss group or mob spawned its a placeholder instead(you can tell, like instead of a named it'll say "a Sathirian Priest" or whatever).

Except most of those these days are full of people leveled down with the chronomage pulling full rooms at a time grinding AA or power leveling alts.

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Originally Posted by Rankojp

I tried reading through all of the prior posts, so I apologize if I missed someone already bringing this idea to the table. If horizontal progression or a hybrid of some sort was used, how about gear sets that once wearing the required pieces unlock bonus skills, not just attributes. I haven't really thought this through yet, but the idea seemed interesting and would be happy to hear peoples' thoughts.

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EQ2 kinda had that with the epic weapon, but it was essentially mandatory later so they made a quest to extract the ability out of it...

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

EQ2 kinda had that with the epic weapon, but it was essentially mandatory later so they made a quest to extract the ability out of it...

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It'd be nice if your AF gear upgraded every patch like the gobtwine etc idea. New Dungeons/raids/quests/trials all dropped a significant piece that when you have collected all the items, pass in the quest to upgrade your gear for the new patch. I'll admit tome grinding gets boring, I haven't worried about capping since myth was the thing and usually geared up through CoB or the new Alex fights(I capped eso just for the 200 wep).

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Originally Posted by Ibi

You can absolutely power level someone in this game.

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No, you cannot. You might have a different idea of what powerleveling is, or a pretty low standard for it if you feel powerleveling is possible here.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

Pulling tons of monsters and destroying them = fun.
Doing the exact same thing in FATES = mindless and zergy.

Okay then.

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Game enjoyment is all about how it's delivered. Combat in this game is pretty..uninteresting. Fates don't bring anything interesting to it either.
In a fate the monsters or objectives are always the same. Kill x amount of monsters. X never changes. The monster for that fate never changes. The abilities it uses are..wait, monsters use abilities?



Game enjoyment is all about how it's delivered.

Yes, I wrote that twice. Probably a reason for it too.