Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

As for the particular PLD you had, I can't say for sure. They may have simply been not paying attention, but AoE makes things much harder for PLD tanks. We don't have an AoE that does dmg, so we attempt to hold aggro as best we can without relying on flash.

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... So why not just, you know, use Flash, hold aggro, and let the DPS melt everything with AOEs?

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

The tank spamming flash however will almost never lose enmity on a mob, but it doesn't mean they're a good tank. In fact, they're being quite useless for the most part.

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Firstly, I don't think a tank that can hold aggro is "useless". Secondly, people need to stop measuring a player's worth simply by damage done. Thirdly, what about tanks that try to spread out Rage of Halone combos and still lose aggro anyway? Should they then avoid Flash like the plague? What's the problem with just letting the DPS go ham while you hold aggro? If the DPS could do even more damage, and you have the ability to hold aggro in the face of their increased damage, but you just don't because you want to do damage, then you're deliberately limiting the party's potential, and that is what I call a bad tank.

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Originally Posted by Kyarra

I just thought this was funny. The other day I was in a random roulette leveling dungeon trying to get my comms. My pc decided to overheat in the middle of it. Reboots, have to wait to get back onto Gilgamesh, when I finally get back on I see that I am still in group. YAY! I type in chat, sorry my pc overheated, thanks for keeping me! 2 seconds later, I get booted :P

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They has regrets!

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

But that is a false statement really. Flash's ability to gain enmity is WAY lower than RoH combo. Yes, spamming it will keep you with aggro 98% of the time, but if the DPS are hitting REALLY hard, then flash will barely keep the aggro because the build up is actually quite low in comparison. As for the particular PLD you had, I can't say for sure. They may have simply been not paying attention, but AoE makes things much harder for PLD tanks. We don't have an AoE that does dmg, so we attempt to hold aggro as best we can without relying on flash.


Yes, a tanks job is to get aggro and a healers job is to heal, but it's honestly EVERYONE's job to DPS. Knowing when to focus on what is a totally different story however. A good tank will spread out RoH to hold aggro and succeed in doing so. A bad tank will spam flash forever and use riot blade to supply MP. The tank spamming flash however will almost never lose enmity on a mob, but it doesn't mean they're a good tank. In fact, they're being quite useless for the most part.

I'd probably say your tanks were under-geared for the dungeon though. AoE's off the bat on mob pulls is harder to deal with as a PLD. But usually, CoS, 1 flash, and then RoH combo around on everything will hold just fine. So if you're tearing them off after that, it's likely a gear issue on the tank.

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Not a reason to not use flash at all. I also had a pld in the Aery who would never flash at all. Yes he did his combo and aoe, but no flash. And he was losing aggro. When I go pld I always weave a flash as I pull and between my combo to start with and it does help. Yes if spammed it's quiet useless, and yes it does no damage. But from that, to agree to completely avoid it... >_>

woah woah woah. Who in the world said not to use flash at all? I simply said that a tank who ONLY spams flash is a bad tank. It's as simple as that. They may get the job done, but they are being inefficient in doing so. Just like a healer who sits on the side refusing to even use Aero once because they are a "healer".

Not saying don't use flash, saying don't only spam it. One CoS and a flash should be more than enough to hold aggro if you rotate your RoH after that. And you'll be doing damage to help burn the mob. Flash does zero damage. And DPS are not always on point.

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

["Nope, not again this argument"

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Sadly all the times I encountered people like this when I played a healer here, call me cold but I can't even muster the emotion to be angry anymore at these kinda players. All I could say to them is

"Thank you for being part of and helping to usher in future ages of unskilled players as well as making players fearful of having the audacity to maximize their classes potential. This is not worth the headache so I'll be taking my leave now to go and play another game for my 30 minute lockout timer. Good luck in your quest to find a mediocre healer. I'm sure you'll have no trouble." /disband

I had the worst run in awhile yesterday in Sunken Temple of Quarn NM. Everyone in my party was greenleaf (which is fine, I don't mind new players). From the start I could tell something was wrong. The first set of trash was dying sooooo slowly. Next, I mark the bees and no one targets them (I was the healer btw), and even if they had the party damage was so low the bee would have been alive for Final Sting. One thing I noticed consistently was the BLM just standing around for long periods of time. The DRG would also randomly run away from the boss and just stand around for awhile. Despite that the DRG seemed the most competent of the three.

Anyways, we get to the first boss, someone was new so I tell them to step on the lit up square after the boss casts Doom. We then proceed to wipe 3-4 times because our tank doesn't understand that much, and because as soon as he dies I die to double Final Sting because DPS can't kill the adds fast enough. We finally make it through once the tank starts actually following mechanics. Did I also mention that the tank stood in aoes 90% of the time? We slowly make it to the second boss and it takes forever. Tank dies because the fight drags on and he's standing in every aoe possible, but we beat it.

We get to final boss after a wipe in which DPS pulled extra adds and before I can explain mechanics the tank runs in. So I pretty much had to heal the tank that doesn't dodge aoes while also doing all the other mechanics during that fight (standing in the squares that get blocked off to kill adds/aggroing the block adds onto the pads). Once the boss was down I left as fast as I could to sweet, sweet freedom. I don't know why I even bothered staying through the whole thing... =__=

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Originally Posted by Aylis

Blubb

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I wouldn't call you cold for that since I know that Feeling aswell, if you get called out six times in a Week for being a dumb Healer because you rather Focus on maximizing your Damage (and keeping everyone alive, which is easy enough in ARF) well... of course it gets old after a time.

Gotta use that Line, if you don't mind, in a Macro since I'm only 133/240 on my Relic currently and ya, thats likely 40-60 ARF Runs more ^_^

And for now to be honest, I even ask right in the start if someone doesn't even bother, if I try to dish out Damage while keeping everyone alive.

I've been helping a friend lately with leveling his jobs. He started with ninja, got it to level 50, then went to summoner next. He happened to find a guy he knew on the server so we added him to our leveling party. They're both dps, so that left me with either healing or tanking. I figured I'd get some practice with heals so I went SCH.

Then last night my friend was at level 47 going on 48. Both guildhest and leveling roulettes were done, so that left spamming the top few dungeons. Naturally we ended up in Aurum Vale every time.

I really dislike Aurum Vale. I respect the difficulty of it, being a 1.0 holdover, but I still dislike it. My friend's friend is naturally one of those bold dps: the "I want big pulls" and "let's pull ahead of the tank" types. I know large pulls in leveling dungeons pre-50 tend to go south very easily, so I'm not a fan of his attitude, but I just grit my teeth and bear with it for the sake of my friend. Of course he runs BLM for these runs and is quite vocal about asking the tanks. The first two kind of ignored him, but the last one was more than enthusiastic (at lvl 47, no less). However, this wasn't really what made last night the mess it was.

Instead, it was the tanks themselves I almost wanted to stuff in a box of sea urchins. Neither of the last two could hold hate very well (not good with an overly eager BLM), AND neither could dodge AoEs either AND neither could be bothered to face Malboros away from the group. SO MUCH LEECHES SPAM.

The things I do for my friends... *sobs*

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

Gotta use that Line, if you don't mind, in a Macro since I'm only 133/240 on my Relic currently and ya, thats likely 40-60 ARF Runs more ^_^

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By all means feel free to ^o^ and good luck on your relic!

Also I'll confess I did get a laugh from when that one person said "the holy trinity" *tries to push back all the memories of playing a druid, a healer class healing my own group, buff rotations and watching the main tank group, snare kiting adds, aoe burning adds and everything in between in raids all at once with occasional eye twitches" xD

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

woah woah woah. Who in the world said not to use flash at all? I simply said that a tank who ONLY spams flash is a bad tank. It's as simple as that. They may get the job done, but they are being inefficient in doing so. Just like a healer who sits on the side refusing to even use Aero once because they are a "healer".

Not saying don't use flash, saying don't only spam it. One CoS and a flash should be more than enough to hold aggro if you rotate your RoH after that. And you'll be doing damage to help burn the mob. Flash does zero damage. And DPS are not always on point.

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I apologize. It came across as not needing to use flash at all. I read again and your later statement and I cannot agree more with you. I come in peace! ;)