How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shamox

Snip

---

When I get tanks they stop EVERY pull. And I have to sprint and pop botd between pulls to keep it alive it's miserable x'D
I even have to pull myself sometimes and I hate that

Yeah, I just pull myself in some case.

Checked again, best way to doubleweave MD and Geirs is to use MD first, way smoother.

Seems dervy was right when DRG does 200 less than ninja.

I can't get my finger on it but, to me, stormblood killed DRG, the changes on it made it sluggish as hell.
DRG still hit hard but juggling with jump/gs/spine for LoTD feel super bad and not as enjoyable and rhythmic as BoTD/GS before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hacchan

I can't get my finger on it but, to me, stormblood killed DRG, the changes on it made it sluggish as hell.
DRG still hit hard but juggling with jump/gs/spine for LoTD feel super bad and not as enjoyable and rhythmic as BoTD/GS before.

---

I personally feel dragoon is more frenetic and active now and I like it. The last trial of the msq I enjoy a lot as dragoon. You get to sprint in combat, elusive jump every minute and funnily enough mirage dive lines up a lot with short lived aoes so you have a ranged attack that doesn't kill you by diving into the bad xD
The only thing that irks me is the stupid amount of skill speed we have. We are in the limbo of too much skill speed for the perfect rota, and too little for the next perfect rota x'D

But if what you guys are saying about ninja being above dragoon in personal dps AGAIN, dragoon is a bit dead. Needing a bard and a machinist to make up for that difference is starting to get a bit boring. I mean ninjas are the light class, and we are designed to fell dragons from the skies. Something is amiss here, physics?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hacchan

I can't get my finger on it but, to me, stormblood killed DRG, the changes on it made it sluggish as hell.
DRG still hit hard but juggling with jump/gs/spine for LoTD feel super bad and not as enjoyable and rhythmic as BoTD/GS before.

---

My issue, and some of this might be just not having done the fights enough yet, is that there are a lot where there is too much down time to keep blood going because the boss goes invuln right before using WT/FC, which then of course means I drop the eye stacks. Again I probably need to adjust, but its still kind of annoying, feels like we have SMN's 3.0 issue

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erys

The only thing that irks me is the stupid amount of skill speed we have. We are in the limbo of too much skill speed for the perfect rota, and too little for the next perfect rota x'D

---

Gotta wait for the Raid because again they thought it was a good idea to put SkillSpeed on the huge majority of Tomestone gear...:confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dacen_Drg

My issue, and some of this might be just not having done the fights enough yet, is that there are a lot where there is too much down time to keep blood going because the boss goes invuln right before using WT/FC, which then of course means I drop the eye stacks.

---

The worst offender is probably the last fight of a lvl 70 dungeon where gold is involved. (Don't want to spoil too much :p )

Dragon is way better now imo

And don't take ACT too seriously rn as it is in beta and dots are fucked up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tharne

Snip

---

I agree to both things you said. While waiting is necessary I'm afraid we are going to get shafted and stuff with gear.
And the gold phases in that fight... my gosh I would kill whoever thought of it, at least the second time around you can keep botd and start a kind of opener with Nastrond but still.

Also I'm still waiting on square to release at least a glamour for Estinien's Gae Bolg. I want it, I want to be the edgiest dragoon in town.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shamox

Dragon is way better now imo

And don't take ACT too seriously rn as it is in beta and dots are fucked up

---

It's actually not that inaccurate and our kit didn't really change from the leaks so dervy's theory on that still stands correct. Every class has a massive pps over drg along with their own more useful party wide buffs except for the ranged classes who are in a similar boat with utility that isn't mandatory or unique. Drg needs a serious look for the up coming balance patch if SE wants to make all classes to not have such huge parity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tharne

The worst offender is probably the last fight of a lvl 70 dungeon where gold is involved. (Don't want to spoil too much :p )

---

That is exactly the dungeon I was referring to lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gaiussenpai

It's actually not that inaccurate and our kit didn't really change from the leaks so dervy's theory on that still stands correct. Every class has a massive pps over drg along with their own more useful party wide buffs except for the ranged classes who are in a similar boat with utility that isn't mandatory or unique. Drg needs a serious look for the up coming balance patch if SE wants to make all classes to not have such huge parity.

---

Dervy is a plagiarist and he also has an agenda. You would do well to take anything he says with a grain of salt.

Wait to see what things look like on paper.

Also any dragoon that have done Susano without heavy card balance let me know some numbers? I have a ninja friend who is curious on melee numbers and comparing with him.

Did one with a ninja double astro (hardly any single balances if party ones) and landed with 3490 although I lost 70 dps due to the stun mechanic.

With the actual ACT build you can compare yourself against other dragoons only, class to class is irrelevant.

Any DRG 4.0 rotations out? Specifically need an opener since I just returned in the end of heavensward and had to learn that one only for it to be gone now.

DRG seems pretty weak right about now. What's the consensus on this? I mean, the potency buffs are nice, roughly making up for the discrepancy for what we lost. However... I've seen some pretty convincing math to show NIN and SAM above DRG far enough to undo the benefit of their piercing debuff. Aesthetically, 4.0 DRG is amazing, the theme of the Job really shines through too. But I'm wondering if it's technically at the bottom of the barrel right now.

Of course, that's not to say they're awful. They now have the ability to help out a melee buddy AND BRD, but is that enough to outweigh the other Jobs?

I came up with an opener which works for me well, you can tell me what you think about it:
HT - Battle Litany, BotD - ID - Dragon Sight, B4B - Dis - geirskogul, jump - CT - Mirage Dive - 4th - Spineshatter - 4th - Mirage Dive - TT - Dragonfire Dive - VP - Life Surge - FT - 4th - 4th - repeat
this one aligns the cooldowns for jump, geirskogul and b4b quite well later on and my rotation feels more fluid.

You can count out sam (and maybe rdm) because they are broken op right now and probably bound to get "fix" at future patch.

Drg at current state is kinda okayish on dps term, from what i see we are above mnk and mch, below nin and blm obviously, not sure about smn and brd though.

At least thats how i feel after many times in party with other dps class

Try this opener:

HT - (BL) - ID - (B4B+DS) - D - (BotD+GK) - CT - (Jump) - WT - (MD) -F&C - (SSD) - TT - (MD) - VT - (LS) - FT (DFD) - F&C - WT

I'm not too crazy about pre-popping BotD+Geirskogul while while a tank is pulling because I like to use a buffed GK for the opener. Who knows though, it's still too early to say. Also the Dragon Sight macro works great, props to the person that posted it here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gumas

You can count out sam (and maybe rdm) because they are broken op right now and probably bound to get "fix" at future patch.

---

I wouldn't count out SAM as it is. Yes, it is crazy strong, but I do believe that's the point. Samurai is what 3.X Monk was supposed to be in that it has zero utility and only offers raw damage. If you rein in its damage, why bring one at all? For Slash debuff? WAR and NIN got that covered.

Plus glorious Nippon pride. I'd be very surprised if SAM's damage output was brought anywhere near the other DPS classes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AzureKoi

Try this opener:

HT - (BL) - ID - (B4B+DS) - D - (BotD+GK) - CT - (Jump) - WT - (MD) -F&C - (SSD) - TT - (MD) - VT - (LS) - FT (DFD) - F&C - WT

I'm not too crazy about pre-popping BotD+Geirskogul while while a tank is pulling because I like to use a buffed GK for the opener. Who knows though, it's still too early to say. Also the Dragon Sight macro works great, props to the person that posted it here.

---

Shouldn't you like not use a offensive cd like geirskogul just after disembowel? Doesn't it NOT get buffed by it because the buff has a small delay? ALso you can hold your mirage dive after SSD and weave it with life surge, swapping it with DfD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeccreo

I came up with an opener which works for me well, you can tell me what you think about it

---

Cool seeing that the openers we've been using are almost identical, the buff placements make sense to make sure that LS+FT is still buffed by B4B and DS, and everything up to there receives the effect of BL.

I noticed that you double weave GK and Jump though, I haven't tried this myself yet and can't right now cause of maintenance, but does that clip your GCD at all? Was wondering if it's safe to double weave Jump now since the patch notes had mentioned them changing Jump's animation.

I tried not to double weave abilities with long animations in my opener, and I can usually squeeze in that DFD while still having B4B and DS up, but it cuts it pretty close (can be fixed with more skill speed which is what a lot of the end game gear has). If it's possible to double weave Jump I would prefer doing that though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erys

Shouldn't you like not use a offensive cd like geirskogul just after disembowel? Doesn't it NOT get buffed by it because the buff has a small delay? ALso you can hold your mirage dive after SSD and weave it with life surge, swapping it with DfD.

---

Thanks for pointing this out, I couldnt figure out where else to weave GK, an earlier post mentioned weaving GK with Jump but I'm worried about clipping. I will give Mirage Dive+Life Surge a try but anytime I try to weave Mirage Dive it clips my GCD, but I do need to get DfD in there earlier because at times it doesn't get buffed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nominous

DRG seems pretty weak right about now. What's the consensus on this? I mean, the potency buffs are nice, roughly making up for the discrepancy for what we lost. However... I've seen some pretty convincing math to show NIN and SAM above DRG far enough to undo the benefit of their piercing debuff. Aesthetically, 4.0 DRG is amazing, the theme of the Job really shines through too. But I'm wondering if it's technically at the bottom of the barrel right now.

Of course, that's not to say they're awful. They now have the ability to help out a melee buddy AND BRD, but is that enough to outweigh the other Jobs?

---

I have both felt and heard the opposite. Dragoon seems to be pretty strong, albeit incredibly dull in content 60 or below. Samurai is far and wide the best melee DPS though, with I think Ninja and Dragoon rounding out spot two pretty close. Without enough theorycrafting and actual testing though, it's hard to pinpoint their exact damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AzureKoi

Thanks for pointing this out, I couldnt figure out where else to weave GK, an earlier post mentioned weaving GK with Jump but I'm worried about clipping. I will give Mirage Dive+Life Surge a try but anytime I try to weave Mirage Dive it clips my GCD, but I do need to get DfD in there earlier because at times it doesn't get buffed.

---

I'm using:
Sprint (5 seconds prepull)>Diversion (1 second)>HT>(BL+BotD)>ID>(B4B+DS)>Dis>(Pot)>CT>(Jump)>WT>(MD+Geirs)>F&C>(SSD)>TT>(DfD)>VT>(MD+LF)>FT44

I'm at 1300 skill speed and while clipping, the F&C after full thrust is still buffed by both dragon sight and blood for blood. The only thing I'm missing to get buffed is sadly that last WT.
Also remember you might want to skip DfD entirely depending if a fight has adds that have to be burned down. So you can skip one MD double weaved and have less clipping.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AzureKoi

I noticed that you double weave GK and Jump though, I haven't tried this myself yet and can't right now cause of maintenance, but does that clip your GCD at all? Was wondering if it's safe to double weave Jump now since the patch notes had mentioned them changing Jump's animation.

I tried not to double weave abilities with long animations in my opener, and I can usually squeeze in that DFD while still having B4B and DS up, but it cuts it pretty close (can be fixed with more skill speed which is what a lot of the end game gear has). If it's possible to double weave Jump I would prefer doing that though.

---

Well, first you need be fast and maybe have a good ping for that double weave. I haven't had any clipping with my opener but i can see your point. If you are really unsure about clipping you can double weave GK after your first Mirage Dive, that usually works too although everything is skillspeed dependent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AzureKoi

I can usually squeeze in that DFD while still having B4B and DS up, but it cuts it pretty close

---

You can cut that risk by moving DfD to after the buffed FT when you don't have an early add phase and it should be still buffed.
While I am not sure with the math you can also move DfD to after Dis instead Jump or pot to have it surely buffed by Battle Litany and other party member buffs too ( although the Dis applied question come into this). So you also can be sure that your GK and Jump is fully buffed, but I this is just a thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erys

I'm using:
Sprint (5 seconds prepull)>Diversion (1 second)>HT>(BL+BotD)>ID>(B4B+DS)>Dis>(Pot)>CT>(Jump)>WT>(MD+Geirs)>F&C>(SSD)>TT>(DfD)>VT>(MD+LF)>FT44

---

I do like this although it is abit situational with the Sprint sometimes maybe? xd
The main thing i forgot about but you ve remembered me is the usage of pot. This changes my opener a bit and is then similar to yours. Also you would surely avoid the Dis delay while having the buffs aligned quite good for later on.
The only thing i would change is that you use Dragon Sight before B4B since you know... always activate B4B as late as possible and gettin the last WT buffed too is possible with that.
I do sometimes prefer weaving GK with jump tho but thats just because of my skillpeed right now and being used to the cooldown alignments later on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erys

F&C>(SSD)>TT>(DfD)>VT>(MD+LF)>FT44

---

Hmm, I really don't like the double weaving MD but thats just me and i would suggest to just put MD after FT since its lower potency than DfD what makes you wanna have DfD crit more over MD. But this is all really just crit, direct hit and fight mechanics dependent. Also yeah, sometimes you wanna save DfD for early adds or movement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeccreo

Hmm, I really don't like the double weaving MD but thats just me and i would suggest to just put MD after FT since its lower potency than DfD what makes you wanna have DfD crit more over MD. But this is all really just crit, direct hit and fight mechanics dependent. Also yeah, sometimes you wanna save DfD for early adds or movement.

---

I double weave MD because if you use it after True Thrust you are "wasting" the weavable space by using only 1 weavable skill. If you use DfD you use all the ogcd frame and then weave MIrage Dive with Life surge for max "space" efficiency. I know it is kind of stupid but I dunno, sometimes I'm fighting more my groups than anything when performing an opener, it wouldn't be the first time I die doing one so I'd rather go with all cds spent x'D

Yeah I can agree but I think that won't be a problem when we get more gear to choose from and get our skillspeed sweet spot again. Right now it's just ridiculous overkill of skillspeed and makes double weaving with skills like Mirage Dive just clunky and inefficient.

It's funny the thing with skill speed tho... the macro still works at 1300 with doubleweaving.
But hey... at least they fixxed the macros. Has anyone tried potions tho?:confused:

I have this question since i leveled my DRG to 50 back in 2.2. Why Dragonfire Dive is not a "Jump" skill, even before with power surge you cant buff DFD or BotD dont buff it, and now isnt even considered as proc for Mirage Dive. If only they change that our way to open the eye would be much more smooth. Like GK(35sec)-Jump(30)-SSD(60)- DFD(120)- Again Jump when out of cooldown and you have the 4th stack and GK ready to transoform into Nastrond. Sorry for my english but i hope everyone understand what i mean.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PaiiNx

I have this question since i leveled my DRG to 50 back in 2.2. Why Dragonfire Dive is not a "Jump" skill, even before with power surge you cant buff DFD or BotD dont buff it, and now isnt even considered as proc for Mirage Dive. If only they change that our way to open the eye would be much more smooth. Like GK(35sec)-Jump(30)-SSD(60)- DFD(120)- Again Jump when out of cooldown and you have the 4th stack and GK ready to transoform into Nastrond. Sorry for my english but i hope everyone understand what i mean.

---

Good question. They could do that or make jump 15cd.

tl;dr: Just came back to game after not playing during 3.0 at all. I really like DRG style (actually first job to 50 at 2.0 release) but i'm old'ish and my mechanics aren't what they used to be.

So apparently, they "simplified" the jobs with the 4.0. Would you say DRG is easy enough to play for an old fart now ? Or still much more difficult than say BLM, RDM etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NanoMidgy

tl;dr: Just came back to game after not playing during 3.0 at all. I really like DRG style (actually first job to 50 at 2.0 release) but i'm old'ish and my mechanics aren't what they used to be.

So apparently, they "simplified" the jobs with the 4.0. Would you say DRG is easy enough to play for an old fart now ? Or still much more difficult than say BLM, RDM etc.

---

It's easier than before because BotD, it's main mechanic, is now kinda a "trait" since it's always on 30 seconds after your opener. You can pretty much push okay numbers out with it without going full nuts.
But to perform you would be looking back at kinda the same status dragoon was in 3.0 upkeeping BotD but this time just to keep your Eye stacks alive. The max you can go out before losing your eyes is 45 seconds (30 you can obtein by refreshing botd+15 from using botd once your counter hits 0=45-whatever time you take to refresh or enter life of the dragon).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PaiiNx

I have this question since i leveled my DRG to 50 back in 2.2. Why Dragonfire Dive is not a "Jump" skill, even before with power surge you cant buff DFD or BotD dont buff it, and now isnt even considered as proc for Mirage Dive. If only they change that our way to open the eye would be much more smooth. Like GK(35sec)-Jump(30)-SSD(60)- DFD(120)- Again Jump when out of cooldown and you have the 4th stack and GK ready to transoform into Nastrond. Sorry for my english but i hope everyone understand what i mean.

---

This would mean you would get Life of the Dragon after the second jump in the rotation and wouldn't be buffed by anything. I don't know if in the long run it would be any better but I can't imagine MANY battles going far than 2 or 3 minutes without having a phase change or a break in which you lose eye stacks and therefore make you lose the life of the dragon that would get buffed with bfb or dragonsight.
Dunno, math wizards might know more. Of course more life of the dragon is going to be better than 1 life of the dragon buffed but popoto maths here x'D

Rotation is brain dead now, yet optimization is harder.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...cc&sh=3dbc7e51

Rip drg?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gaiussenpai

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...cc&sh=3dbc7e51

Rip drg?

---

Yea. You should switch to Sam right now.

On a serious note the mages are parsing too high for how easy and relatively safe their play style is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordMaitreya

Yea. You should switch to Sam right now.

On a serious note the mages are parsing too high for how easy and relatively safe their play style is.

---

Or ninja either would work.

Would you even be able to bring something like Dragon Sight into SSS? Been awhile since I poked one of those things.