Summoner Early Post-Launch Feedback at level 80

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...1db7c6162503b9
Arcanist/Summoner
Action Adjustment
Ruin The additional effect "If target is suffering from a Bio or Miasma effect inflicted by you, Ruin potency is increased to 130 for one effect, or 180 for both" has been removed, and the base potency has been increased from 80 to 180.
Ruin II The additional effect "If target is suffering from a Bio or Miasma effect inflicted by you, Ruin II potency is increased to 120 for one effect, or 160 for both" has been removed, and the base potency has been increased from 80 to 160.
Ruin III The additional effect "If target is suffering from a Bio or Miasma effect inflicted by you, Ruin III potency is increased to 150 for one effect, or 200 for both" has been removed, and the base potency has been increased from 100 to 200.
Ruin IV The additional effect "If target is suffering from a Bio or Miasma effect inflicted by you, Ruin IV potency is increased to 190 for one effect, or 260 for both" has been removed, and the base potency has been increased from 120 to 260.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Let's take a moment to laugh about the fact that the SMN change didn't buff it at all. It isn't even a quality of life improvement.

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It's a QoL adjustment, it just happens to be purely for accidentally dropping bio/miasma or it clipping unintentionally. It's not a good or bad change, per se, but it is missing the point a bit; however, I have a feeling that whatever the hell they're cooking up for SMN has to be more significant than just fixing half of the festeruin problem. With how much complaining has been done about SMN and its somewhat plummeting population, they can't be ignoring the class and are just doing some surface level adjustments that don't destructively interfere with whatever's being done in 5.1. They implied something would be happening to Trick Attack and Mudras as well, but nothing happened in 5.08, so basically we get to see what's happening in 5.1 and then go from there.

SMN didn't really need damage buffs, per se, what it needs is a restructuring of how the class plays, and not adjusting anything in 5.08 except removing a dumb aspect of ruin helps support this idea of them having something more significant cooking.

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Originally Posted by ShariusTC

any chance that they will separate DWT and FBT into 2 action so we can have 3 burst phase back to back?

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I hope not, the last thing the class needs is more buttons and more things to micromanage.

Them having something more cooking is great and all, but it had better be more than simply making SMN as fun as it once was. The job shouldn't be punished anywhere near as hard as it is for having that rez.

I don't think the class is being punished for having a res half as badly as people think it is. The problem is the class is being punished by having a poorly designed rotation and having Devotion, and people just happen to blame res utility for some bizarre reason despite it likely being a non-factor when determining class design since players are expected to survive throughout a fight and casters can just help healers, which is mostly a prog system than anything else.

SMNs entire issue ties back to my first point though, the rotation is just bad. Pure and simple.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

I hope not, the last thing the class needs is more buttons and more things to micromanage.

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what are you talking about? SMN's skill in this xpac can't even fill 24 of my crosshotbar slot not even with some role skill mix into it, and separate those 2 button don't even increase the skill micromanage compare with how is it now, like tell me how press DWT button 2 times in the rotaion with press DWT and FBT button 1 time in the rotaion will dramaticly increase your "things to micromanage", just make the transition between DWT > bahamut > phoenix phase more smooth without few second of waiting between bahamut and phoenix

We technically got nothing new this patch. They reverted something that they shouldn't have done in the first place. I'm just glad they've realized their stupid mistake instead of doing something arbitrary which makes me hopeful for the 5.1 changes. Top priority for me is for them to make SMN a lot smoother to play, more forgiving towards mistakes and just more welcoming to play/try out in general. 5.0 SMN went so backwards with their design philosophy it's embarrassing.

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Originally Posted by ShariusTC

what are you talking about? SMN's skill in this xpac can't even fill 24 of my crosshotbar slot not even with some role skill mix into it, and separate those 2 button don't even increase the skill micromanage compare with how is it now, like tell me how press DWT button 2 times in the rotaion with press DWT and FBT button 1 time in the rotaion will dramaticly increase your "things to micromanage", just make the transition between DWT > bahamut > phoenix phase more smooth without few second of waiting between bahamut and phoenix

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Number of abilities does not equal the amount of tasks you need to micromanage, and the class already feels horrifically overbloated.

To put it another way, ARR's SMN had fewer abilities to manage but had to micromanage vastly harder than even the current summoner does.

What you're asking for is to bloat the bars more with more redundant abilities while also adding an entire layer on a class where most people are already complaining that it has too many layers, all for some supposed increase in convenience to timing when abilities can possibly be fired.

It's not a good idea and the class should be streamlined in other directions.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Number of abilities does not equal the amount of tasks you need to micromanage, and the class already feels horrifically overbloated.

To put it another way, ARR's SMN had fewer abilities to manage but had to micromanage vastly harder than even the current summoner does.

What you're asking for is to bloat the bars more with more redundant abilities while also adding an entire layer on a class where most people are already complaining that it has too many layers, all for some supposed increase in convenience to timing when abilities can possibly be fired.

It's not a good idea and the class should be streamlined in other directions.

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yeah, sound cool, but tell me, how press DWT 2 times in a rotaion and press DWT and FBT each time have any impact on your theory of "action boat"?

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Originally Posted by ShariusTC

yeah, sound cool, but tell me, how press DWT 2 times in a rotaion and press DWT and FBT each time have any impact on your theory of "action boat"?

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Because I really don't want to have 2 buttons on my bar that are non-compete and redundant with each other, and there's literally no good reason to do this.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

I don't think the class is being punished for having a res half as badly as people think it is. The problem is the class is being punished by having a poorly designed rotation and having Devotion, and people just happen to blame res utility for some bizarre reason despite it likely being a non-factor when determining class design since players are expected to survive throughout a fight and casters can just help healers, which is mostly a prog system than anything else.

SMNs entire issue ties back to my first point though, the rotation is just bad. Pure and simple.

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This pretty much. SMN's main issue is that its entire kit is comprised of separate functions staples together, with very little synergy. Unlike other jobs, nothing really plays nicely with each other, and you're actively fighting the mechanics of your own job (even canceling one of your Trances early to get to Bahamut/Phoenix faster....) to do what you need to do. The damage is there, but it does not feel good.

SMN always had decent to great damage, and excelled at group meltdowns. However, a big issue with this is how SMN does damage. SMN's damage is split between nukes, DoTs, and pets, which both works and doesn't work well depending on the encounter. A lot of fights are designed as a DPS race against an enrage counter, which promotes doing as much damage as you can - as quickly as you can. SMN has been moving slightly away from DoT (and pet) management, but it's still a big part of the job, and all of SMNs damage happens in incremental stages across different avenues. You have to work your way slowly up to max potential, then fall and do it again. It needs the nukes to be somewhat on par in function with the others, but it can't be too powerful because of the passive damage that ramps up with its DoTs and pet actions. So, SMNs get hard-gated on what they can do, depending on which stage they are at.

This all circles back to its stapled-together kit being a clunky mess with a lack of identity. It wants to be a DoT Mage, a Pet Class, a Mobile Caster, and a Burst Turret all at the same time. It's kind of hard to balance all of that on both the player and development side. SE needs to set aside some time and figure out what they want SMN to be and stick with it, instead of playing halfsies.