The Healer Double Standard

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I see constant complaining about Tanks and Healers, the reason why the Kaiten thing is getting so much attention is because it's the removal of something that actually matters a lot and will make it less fun to play.

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I'm sorry, but this right here is the exact double standard we are talking about! Do you actually not see that or is this bait?? ALL of the skills Healers lost mattered and made the Jobs fun to play. A DPS is losing 1 skill mid-expansion.... Healers on average lose 4-5 skills every new expansion and receive re-skins of old abilities at higher levels. You absolutely will NOT invalidate the thousands of arguments from the Healer Community about how poorly the Role is designed.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Its simple. The devs think of healing as a feminine and unexciting task. It may sound sexist, but its 100% the truth.

What they want is to make sure healers are always able to keep everyone else going. They don't want healing to ever be hard or complicated, because that might slow down all the "fun" jobs.

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I'm not so sure that i would it that way, as much as they likely ;

1- see the healer from the perspective from a DPS and/or tank
2- get feedback from players who complained about 'healers who let me die', "i don't like it when healers let me die' , " i shouldn't have to rely on a healer", 'healers like to play God'..you get the idea. It's bad for business if people unsubscribe because of this.

(1) can be a problem, as someone who mained DPS for years, I can see that was was really inconsiderate and i didn't appreciate that until i created a healer alt in this game, I also think that SE (as they don't play healers) almost seems to view that people who pick the healer job see themselves as some magnanimous beings who exist to kiss people's hurts and make them feel better, and as as people who never think of their own enjoyment. Fine, that may well fit some people's healing fantasy, however I really don't want that to extend onto the whole job design.

of the DPS and/or the tank roles

I remember reading this horrible interview during SB's tail-end.

The devs are so tone-deaf that they would go out of their way to say that WHM was doing all of the healing while SCH was dpsing away when the proof is literally right there.

And it's still true to this very day. WHM remains to be the weakest healer in damage AND healing. The game is designed against GCD healing. There's no if's, but's, or and's.

The combat are dances that have predictable flows. The best healer will always be the one who can heal without breaking damage spam.

The devs are hypocrites who design and have healer dps matter in week 1 clears yet outright tells the community that healers shouldn't be doing damage.

And I agree with the OP's statement, there's 100% a double standard. Tanks are designed with damage in mind since they can't make tanking more complicated or even less people will play the already small community. Tanks have their own issues but when it comes to healers, the devs are so dismissive and honestly disrespectful.

They want to cater the heal-only purist crowd so badly that they can't even see that if these same people were to get what they want, they will STILL be a bad healer. What makes a good healer is not by the HP they can top off spamming Cure, but doing so while utilizing their whole kit and assisting in eliminating the threat faster.

But they will continue on this crusade of keeping healers at the complete nightmare of 1 spam, 1 nuke, 1 dot.

I've grown hateful of how they treat healers especially the comment on "if you want to heal more, go heal Ultimate."

But it looks like they're doing some damage on their beloved DPS role and causing a firestorm with the very things healers have been subjected to for a long time.

If they do revert the Kaiten change on SAM(even though I don't play SAM at all, I agree it was a very questionable change) in say, 6.2, and don't do anything for healers, it'll just further cement the double standard/apathy the devs have for our role.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I'm not so sure that i would it that way, as much as they likely ;

1- see the healer from the perspective from a DPS and/or tank
2- get feedback from players who complained about 'healers who let me die', "i don't like it when healers let me die' , " i shouldn't have to rely on a healer", 'healers like to play God'..you get the idea. It's bad for business if people unsubscribe because of this.

(1) can be a problem, as someone who mained DPS for years, I can see that was was really inconsiderate and i didn't appreciate that until i created a healer alt in this game, I also think that SE (as they don't play healers) almost seems to view that people who pick the healer job see themselves as some magnanimous beings who exist to kiss people's hurts and make them feel better, and as as people who never think of their own enjoyment. Fine, that may well fit some people's healing fantasy, however I really don't want that to extend onto the whole job design.

of the DPS and/or the tank roles

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It kinda sounds like your apologizing for the devs here. Their biases are not an excuse. Don't believe me? Consider ALL healing gear design - flowing white fluffy robes. ALWAYS. They have a very specific view of this job.

You are also making excuses for them listening to tank/dps feedback but ignoring healers. A GOOD dev team would rate all players as equal. Its blatantly obvious which jobs are 3rd class citizens in this game.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

It kinda sounds like your apologizing for the devs here. Their biases are not an excuse. Don't believe me? Consider ALL healing gear design - flowing white fluffy robes. ALWAYS. They have a very specific view of this job.

You are also making excuses for them listening to tank/dps feedback but ignoring healers. A GOOD dev team would rate all players as equal. Its blatantly obvious which jobs are 3rd class citizens in this game.

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If you had ever read any of my posts, you would understand that I do not *apologize* for the SE development team, especially for their approach to healer jobs. The post that you quoted in no way excuses their position, it rather explains why it may have come about. Do you see that difference?

When I am having discussions with people involving design changes, I need to understand their motivations, their biases, and many other things. Without that knowledge it is difficult to come to a common understanding or agreement.

Incidentally, I'm not a fan of white healer robes, either I do like choice for healers (like any job), however to be fair not all healer glam is white robes. A quick example that comes to mind is the Nier alliance set, mind you the latest allaince is white robes, but at least they're dyable.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

If you had ever read any of my posts, you would understand that I do not *apologize* for the SE development team, especially for their approach to healer jobs. The post that you are quote in no way excuses their position, it rather explains why it may have come about. Do you see that difference?

When I am having decisions with people involving design changes, I need to understand their motivations, their biases, and many other things. Without that knowledge it is difficult to come to a common understanding or agreement.

Incidentally, I'm not a fan of white healer robes, either I do like choice for healers (like any job), however to be fair not all healer glam is white robes. A quick example that comes to mind is the Nier alliance set, mind you the latest allaince is white robes, but at least they're dyable.

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Sorry if I came off too strong there.

I'm just frustrated because I don't think there is a single thing that any player CAN do. The devs literally just don't care about spending time on healers.

I cracked reading this:
https://i.imgur.com/Uj2J3TN.jpg

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Originally Posted by Katoar

I cracked reading this:

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I think the only time that statement was true was in ARR and even then it's iffy since Lustrate and the Fairy weren't affected by Cleric Stance so SCH was still capable of healing while staying in Cleric Stance for the better part of a fight.

That statement is still so hilariously out of touch with reality. Scholar, "primarily a barrier healer" in Stormblood? The expac where Indom was 500 potency and was a priority heal over WHM/AST/SCH using any of their AoE GCDs because of it being less of a DPS loss? Or SCH's bread and butter free healing being Whispering Dawn and Embrace? Comments like that make it genuinely seem like Yoshida believes that healers using GCD heals first and then oGCDs as "emergency buttons" is how these jobs are meant to be played, and when the developers would see random SCHs not constantly casting Succor/Adlo and instead letting their faerie do the work or weaving Indom inbetween Miasma II and ED for raidwides, it annoyed them and they thought "Scholars aren't playing properly and instead are focusing on DPSing instead of healing! Why aren't they using Succor before raidwides to shield!"

But yeah, SCH needed to lose Miasma, Miasma II, Shadow Flare and Bane because they lack the ability to "cure to the extent WHM can"... so lets just get rid of all of that and still make nothing in game require that amount of curing, and also get rid of SCH's ability to heal freely entirely. We fixed the issue guys, time to pat ourselves on the back! We are geniuses at healing design!