DRK Consolidated Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I don't think that TBN single-handedly solves all of DRK's mitigation problems, either. TBN specifically works on single hit tankbusters. How do you think it would fare against a multi-hit physical tankbuster, such as A7S' Uplander Doom? TBN doesn't really work, because a lot of the damage comes from scaling autos. You'd maybe mitigate one hit.

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Shields work perfectly fine on multi hit tankbusters. They're not like Sheltron where they fade after one hit no matter how much damage it does. A 10k shield reduces the same amount of damage whether it's used on a single 60k hit or 6 10k hits. A Rampart on that same damage would reduce damage by 12k total. The only real difference is that the shield mitigates all up front and pretty much negates one hit completely, while other cooldowns reduce much less on each hit but the damage reduced adds up over time.
Using your A7S example, TBN would be really good there. A TBN by itself could probably reduce one of the attacks to 0 (with some shield left over for the second hit), so you wouldn't get that stack of vuln up. Combined with Adloquium and Stoneskin, you would have been able to completely avoid 2 or 3 stacks which would reduce the damage from the last 3 hits.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Using your A7S example, TBN would be really good there. A TBN by itself could probably reduce one of the attacks to 0 (with some shield left over for the second hit), so you wouldn't get that stack of vuln up. Combined with Adloquium and Stoneskin, you would have been able to completely avoid 2 or 3 stacks which would reduce the damage from the last 3 hits.

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If you had TBN on synched content because running it unsynched would be too easy... I wish there was a 8 man raid roulette for those situations and wish there was an EX trial roulette...

TBN generally works fine on multi-hit tankbusters. The math is pretty straightforward: TBN is stronger mitigation than a 20% reduction up until the point where the incoming damage is higher than your max HP, at which point mitigation will start to pull ahead.

In the specific case of Uplander Doom (which is sort of unique in comparison to multi-hit tankbusters everywhere else, in that it does more damage but takes a LONG time to finish), TBN would fall behind Rampart, but would likely beat or pull even with Inner Beast, if you assume that every vuln stack takes effect - but TBN would almost certainly reduce the first hit to 0, meaning that you\\'d have one fewer stack by the time it finished. In practice, I think it would have still been competitive had Midas happened with all of the level 70 skills in play.

TBN would fare a little worse on a solo-tanked Holy Scourge, but everybody used invuln skills for that, and you were technically supposed to split the damage anyway.

TBN can certainly be used as an adjunct in multi-hit tankbusters. The problem, however, is that you generally can't use it in isolation, and the rest of the kit is lacking, especially in heavily physical fights.

There were two reasons why I cited A7S in particular. First, Uplander Doom isn't a single hit tankbuster masquerading as a multi-hit one, like Bahamut's Claw or Gobrush Rushgob. There is a fairly long interval between each individual hit. So while it can mitigate an individual hit and perhaps negate a single stack, you're not going to eat the rest of the five vuln stack damage unmitigated. You're forced to use at least one of your longer recast cooldowns, and you don't really have many of these to spare.

Which brings me to my second reason. Historically, DRK wasn't a popular choice for A7S prog, and this was at a time when DRK had access to Foresight and Dark Dance to smooth out some of the damage, and also at a time when it didn't offer the lowest dps out of the three tanks. If a fight like this was released today, DRK would be a liability, both in speedruns and prog.

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Originally Posted by NymeriaVelaris

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As a tank, you're generally tuned in to encounter damage patterns. Even if you're not actively tanking, you very quickly pick up on the timings of cleaves and tankbusters on your co-tank. What makes TBN fun is the fact that it keeps you "active" even when you're not. It's not just a barrier ("The law of the land? The authority of a name? These are tools cowards use to escape harm. We have no need of shields figurative or literal.") TBN's barrier may embody regret, but the follow-up Bloodspiller embodies revenge.

The problem is, while you could very well TBN every tankbuster and cleave on yourself and your co-tank, you generally won't outside of buff windows (and there too, the true value is not in the extra Bloodspiller, but in the fact that you cannot fit an extra DA on HS). I don't think that making this a consistent dps gain would dramatically drive up the skill ceiling, any more than remembering AoE timestamps and popping Third Eye has made SAM more difficult to play. If anything, many of these big hits are telegraphed 'TANKBUSTER' with an ominous auto-attack pause, a dramatic wind-up, and/or a very specific 2 second castbar, so any one of these things quickly sets off your spideysenses to pop the button. You just need to make the shield strong enough that it doesn't break if you just throw it in on a random auto.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I don't think that making this a consistent dps gain would dramatically drive up the skill ceiling, any more than remembering AoE timestamps and popping Third Eye has made SAM more difficult to play. .

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Again, the comparison to Third Eye doesnt fit, Third Eye doesnt work like TBN. Its easier and more reliable to proc. It has less risk involved because there are no costs and its also not your most important mitigation skill at the same time. On top of that it cant be used as often as TBN because as DPS there is no incoming damage all the time.

The skill ceiling would greatly increase if you have to to successfully break 3-4 TBNs per minute to maintain max dps on top of what DRK is currently doing (while also still mitigating properly when its really needed).
On top of that there are the issues with non savage content/rising ilvl i already mentioned, which will make it even more difficult to proc TBN as often as possible.

Making DRKs DPS dependend on encounter damage is a bad idea, thats the reason why SE designed TBN to be neither dps gain nor loss.

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Originally Posted by NymeriaVelaris

Third Eye doesnt work like TBN. Its easier and more reliable to proc. It has less risk involved because there are no costs and its also not your most important mitigation skill at the same time.

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Its funny because you're basically highlighting some problems with the skill at the same time you're being contrarian in a feedback thread. If you're gonna post in here maybe offer up some ideas instead of just randomly appearing 40 pages in to shoot others down.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

Its funny because you're basically highlighting some problems with the skill at the same time you're being contrarian in a feedback thread. If you're gonna post in here maybe offer up some ideas instead of just randomly appearing 40 pages in to shoot others down.

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There is no need to attack people because they are new to this thread or not agreeing with you.

I m not shooting anyone down, i just pointed out the actual consequences of the suggested TBN change, and why its not a good idea.


I dont see any problems with TBN in its current state. Maybe increase the duration to 6 seconds to make it more viable against auto attacks, thats it.

TBN is fine, there are other DRK skills which truly need help like Dark Passenger or Sole Survivor. Dark Mind was mentioned as well, but since all savage fights this tier have magic attacks it is extremely useful, so its hard to complain about it.

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Originally Posted by NymeriaVelaris

TBN is fine, there are other DRK skills which truly need help like Dark Passenger or Sole Survivor. Dark Mind was mentioned as well, but since all savage fights this tier have magic attacks it is extremely useful, so its hard to complain about it.

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No it's not... 3.xx DRK who mained the job will tell you that TBN sucks in terms of mitigation in fights where PLD and WAR are more optimal unless enrage timer then they need DRK DPS...

Drk dps is too low, it needs a buff to put it on par with PLD.

TBN needs to be longer by at least 1 second.

One more mitigation skill needs to be added(Blood Price lower damage by 10%? DA dark mind also mitigates 15% physical?).

Dark Passenger needs an MP nerf, and it would be nice if it could fit in your single target rotation again.

Sole Survivor needs a lower CD, 60 seconds, and perhaps a single target use, even if they have to remove the MP gain.

Plunge animation lock is freaking brutal.

Shadow wall needs an additional effect, buff to 40%, or a reduced CD.

Souleater should regen half or even a quarter HP out of grit.

Blood price should be useable out of grit, even if they have to remove mp gain OR blood gain but not both.

Does there come a point where soul eater starts delivering better self-healing? I'm leveling my DRK now, and it's just brutal compared to how easy I have it as a warrior. Soloing fates and questing feels like a chore, and I'm keeping my chocobo out as a necessity instead of a whim.