New Jobs Gated Behind Completion of 2.0 Story?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I liked those games a lot better because you didn't really have a story, they were much more sandboxy and had far more freedoms. =) Unfortunately MMOs like that don't really exist much anymore.

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Sure they do o_o Just look more towards the grind-I mean, KMMOs :x
Though, admittedly, the ones I know of are a bit on the older side - but they exist

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

I liked those games a lot better because you didn't really have much of a story, they were much more sandboxy and had far more freedoms. =) Unfortunately MMOs like that don't really exist much anymore.

I like games that make you create your own story, especially as a role-player.

I myself am waiting for the next big Sandbox MMO that will never ever come out! =)

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Archeage says "Hi, we're a thing but failed horribly." Fun fact: They suffered the same
"Housing/Farming" business like housing plays out here. Was hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Saseal

Sure they do o_o Just look more towards the grind-I mean, KMMOs :x
Though, admittedly, the ones I know of are a bit on the older side - but they exist

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Play the SWG Emulator, it took less then a week to get max leveled characters but the game wasn't about the grind it's endgame content is like Monster Hunter, collecting parts, crafting, rare items, cas, drops. The mechanics of the game are much more interesting as well.

Why am I not playing? Simple, its an emulator so it only has 1/4 of the game released right now, so none of the content I want to do in the game is released yet.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Archeage says "Hi, we're a thing but failed horribly." Fun fact: They suffered the same
"Housing/Farming" business like housing plays out here. Was hilarious.

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Ahh.. the dreaded Archeage excuse... Archeage was nothing like older sandbox MMOs. Its starting point was completely themepark, its leveling system was completely themepark and it has only 1/500th of the open housing SWG had.

You could not even make your own cities, and the "Sandbox" portion of the game was limited, it had too many Themepark features. They also shot themselves in the foot by making the game completely pay to win. Its "classes" were also completely Themepark, and also unbalanced as a bad word. There is literally no point to play melee in the game. =)

Also, how is Archeages housing any different from Final Fantasies? Both of them are pretty much limited to a few zones and limited. Not everyone can have a house in Final Fantasy either.

Archeage is simply a failed Sandpark. With more park then Sand. Its "multi-classing" and abilities are worse then this games and limited to just not being useful.

I admit, I actually liked Archeage and played it very hardcore for a bit - but after updates and the developers not listening to the players and making things MORE theme-park based and more pay to win I had to take my leave.

Honestly if it's such a hinder on people why not make a petition or something? That's some good sound advice there -
They might just make it so while you have to experience the 50 stuff via main story line that it won't be gated with classes.

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Originally Posted by Mirakumi

If he came from WoW, he most likely waited for 55 for Dark Knight. It was the same in FFXI you had to wait till level 30.
So he's obviously grinded out another class before he's stepped into the great sword job. So please give me another excuse why he cannot play another class if he's done so in the past.

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He did not come from WoW, and flash news since you have to keep this rude tone with me, Warrior was able to use Great Sword in FFXI. He's been using the weapon since lv1. Also, grinding a class is not the same as having to do the MSQ. He wants to do the MSQ, but with a great sword. Others want to do it with guns. It's not that hard.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

What... none of the guildhests are anything like the strategies in dungeons, they are closer to solo quests in the main storyline then anything else. They teach you absolutely nothing about dungeons or raids

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Bull****.

Enemy Strongholds teaches you that enemies sometimes spawn out of nowhere, which you'll see again in Stone Vigil. It also teaches the tank how to save the healer from adds that spawn mid-fight, like you'll see in Sastasha, Tam-Tara, Copperbell, Toto-Rak, Haukke, Brayflox, Qarn, Cutter's Cry, Dzemael, Aurum Vale, and the list goes on.

Hero on the Halfshell continues the "pick up adds" thing, and introduces two new things: healer enemies and luring mobs to particular spots. Healer enemies you find in Cutter's Cry, Garuda Hard Mode, and others. Luring enemies to particular spots before they die returns in Qarn, Titan Extreme, Garuda Extreme, Leviathan Extreme,

Pulling Poison Posies teaches tanks to pull enemies out of puddle AOEs. Brayflox, Stone Vigil, Praetorium, Copperbell Hard, etc.

Flicking Sticks and Taking names is almost exactly the opening section to Copperbell Hard Mode.

Annoy the Void teaches you that immune bosses sometimes have mechanics you have to do to damage them, such as Dzemael's Batraal.

Ward Up tests your ability to weaken enemies to near death before killing them all, such as you'll see in Moggle Mog Extreme.

Solemn Trinity teaches you that sometimes you have to keep enemies apart, like in. . .I dunno? T9 Golems, maybe? Definitely something you see in Garuda Extreme.

But, no, the strategies in guildhests are nothing like dungeon strategies. Do go on. . .

By that logic: Final Fantasy and World of Warcraft are exactly the same game. They both have Levels, Mechanics, Scripts, Circle AOEs. If I played one I should be a master of the other right?

Wrong!

Even though they feature the same mechanics, the way they are, placement and everything is completely different.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Enemy Strongholds

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You mean the rubbish trash I tank as a healer? Those are not strategies, thats just adaptability and tactics. Also that really doesn't teach the tank anything. Most of the time in that dungeon from what i've ran as a healer (when I was doing it low levels.) the DPS or "I" the healer tanked it. It didn't leave a significant impression on me, and the trash in those zones listed were such a joke I barely remember it. It didn't give me a clue on how to deal with real challenges in the game, like dungeon bosses and raiding. I had to learn the new mechanics for each fight. Why else would people say you need to watch youtube videos before doing some fights? I guess its because *gasp!* the game doesn't show you enough?

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Hero on the Halfshell

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They arn't, they are completely different in a significant way. Sure you could argue that it teaches you how to "Pick up adds." however, the player storyline (base storyline quest) does that 100 times better especially for NPCs you have to save, and you learn that easily enough in your first dungeon you do. It teaches you a lot more then everything the guildhests will ever teach you.

Everquest 1 and 2 had a much better way of teaching people, contested low level dungeons like Black-burrow were fun interesting zones that had pretty much every one of those strategies with mini bosses and wandering mobs. It saddens me that there are no contested dungeons these days.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

What's with you and then ilvl90 business? I had to start BLM fresh out the box just yesterday after pumping junk on DRG I wouldn't use much in the end.
Here's how to become ilvl 80 in a few days flat.
1. You get your AF gear, buy some accessories, go roll CT. Get Ilvl 80 gear.
2. Go to ST. Ilvl 100. Hell even between then you can buy some items 100/110/120 from Rowena and co. Do EXP roul. get Acc's/gear for i100.
There you're done. I mean they throw soldiers in your face at this point. Gearing 1 job to i120 is nothing now thanks to the unlocks of WoD.

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And then do that all over again when you unlock the new Jobs that start at level 30... or not and skip passed them because you got the necessary gear for when your {New Job} hits 51.

Final thoughts on this seeing as it's just going to go round in circles.

New jobs being locked behind Ishgard and the main story is IMO dumb, really dumb. They could get round it in any number of ways and the game already has plenty of examples of gameplay taking precedence over the storyline, however if they insist on it I think they can just about get away with it for this expansion. If they gate the next set of jobs behind completing 2.0 and completing 3.0 though they are really shooting themselves in the foot.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

So many free insults, thank you very much.

I'd help him if he decided to rush through the MSQ, but thing is, he doesn't. Both he and I like the story a lot, so much that I intend to make an alt to redo it with him. His plea (and mine), was that we'd be able to do it as MAC and DRK. He never bought ARR before because it had no great sword job, and preferred to stay in XI instead. Now that he knows of DRK, he's very ready to make the jump. But sadly, the way the HW jobs are set up now, he'll be forced to do the MSQ as a class he does not like. Can you really blame players with these feelings? I think not.

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Um... you're going to probably need cross class abilties from stuff like gladiator/marauder and archer/lancer/ninja/pugilst or something for machinist anyways?