New hrothgar hairstyles are really bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chikatsu

well, if you see them wearing a helmet, that is usually a dead giveaway it's not a Hrothgar..... yes, I am still salty about equipment, why do you ask?

---

And the few full helms we can wear, shrink our heads and replaces it with the Roegadyn one, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

That is what a Hrothgar is, and if people enjoy that, they have every right to without being called stuff they're not.

---

This. When Hrothgar was just released I made a brand new character to be a Hrothgar (I didn't know how Fantasia worked). I took him from ARR to SHB, I formed a connection with him. I like what they represent, the lore, the undying perseverance to create a better future for themselves and their children, going to war even if they are outnumbered for their safety and equality. But more than that, they look cool! I always played beast races because seeing them in-game was cool, from character models to animations, lore and behaviour. I find beast races to be awesome, so I play them cause that is my "race fantasy", even though I am a woman IRL and would love to play as a female Hrothgar to see the Queens in action, I love my boy, and I want what's best for him. This whole thing threw me into an emotional loop. I know this race is just a 3D model with a rig and a few strings of code, but I am emotionally invested in it, and I can't help it. So when I see what they did to them, cutting the ears and super-glueing wigs on, I can't help but get upset. As a person with a bachelor's in game design, their excuses measure to "it will take time and effort and we have no sacrificial lamb to do it, cause we sure don't want to". I specialise in 3D models, animations and VFX, so I saw a few problems from the start but kept hoping that they will solve them in time, 3 years later and their "solutions" are akin to slapping a band-aid on a broken dam (the poor thing it's holding for dear life). And to put salt on the wound, the silence, that one stings! Especially with the recent housing fiasco, in which they released 3 statements in less than 3 days, while our problem went unaddressed until the last minute and even then it was STILL brushed off. I am tired and upset, I want to be treated equally to the other races, and I want to see Hrothgar get some love. I don't want to change my race cause that would mean giving them money and cause the small number that we are to get even smaller and perpetuate the " you are 2% of the population so you don't matter" bull!

"Oh hey Yoshi-P released a statm--oh it's just about PvP. :|"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

snippy

---

It's alright to be emotionally invested in it. Is that not what Square Enix wanted us to do? They make so many speeches about wanting people to "live" in their game, that they want people to enjoy their characters. How else would we describe crying over fictional characters in the MSQ as many people have in Shadowbringers if not "emotional investment"? It's fine, it's natural, but more importantly it's encouraged.

And a player character is the most intimate the player will ever get in this game. It's the first thing they make and it's what represents them.

That said, Hrothgar have an opressing lore to them. Yes, the Au Ra used to be murdered in Ishgard, but only a handful left and note the past tense. The Hrothgar identity is so defined at the moment by Garlean events that much of what we think is "Hrothgar lore" is actually Sharlayan misinterpretations. Sharlayan itself didn't even bother to properly document things. And they call themselves the bastion of knowledge... Worse still, Bozja is horrifying. We've had war before in Stormblood, and we've had shocking scenes where people are transfigurated into grotesque creatures. But just reading about what happened to Dabog feels like it was too far.

And this bleeds into our characters. Either we choose to ignore it, or we engage with it. But it's heavy, and a lore that heavy, carved out by death and war is emotional. We go through Bozja and the Gunbreaker job quests to engage with what little lore we have, and it's impactful because of how much an emotional punch it has. That punch is left on our characters, because the avatars we made and represent us have that meaning now. And given current events here in Europe, that punch is hitting a little close to some people despite it being fictional.

So we don't hide that we care for our characters. We don't hide that we want to be treated equally as players. And we don't hide that Square Enix has been doing a horrible job addressing this.

I don't care if the dev team's feathers are ruffled by me saying that. They've known what they were doing from the start. I get that Housing is a much larger system. But they can fix it easily; it's just a few lines of code. Hrothgar requires effort, we asked for so long for effort, and they feed us the same answer.

And this treatment is really spoiling the game for me. I know I'm only one player so why should they care. But it really is spoiling it. I don't want to play this game anymore knowing how they chose to single us out. How they choose to answer us. It's not the end of the game, but it's still not a good thing to experience. I'm not burnt out, the game was soured by this mess.

Our race just doesn't work and they openly and shamelessly don't care about it. Other people going on about SAM losing buttons? THAT'S whining. People wanting their races to be treated with respect isn't. And if it seems emotional, take two seconds to figure out why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Ask a Roegadyn, a Viera or a Hrothgar if they feel the acceptance in the air.

---

As someone who mains both a Roe and a Hroth, I'm lowkey used to being the butt of the joke that's excluded from any and all considerations when designing gear sets, glamours or even hairstyles - "grab a Hyur model, stretch it out, that should do" ...no, it really doesn't, that's why a lot of mods revolve around making gear and glamours fit the Roe/Hroth head or body type better, I guess because the bottom of the barrel races "aren't worth giving attention to" and when calling out on it, there's never lack of a Lala or Miqo to give responses on the lines of "be glad your kind is getting anything at all" ....gee, thanks?

At this stage, my fear is they're going to focus all their attention on PVP & the housing issue... I can just hear it now "There are other priorities, Hrothgars need to wait even longer". Anyone would think SE would have released a statement and gathered plenty of feedback by now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chikatsu

well, if you see them wearing a helmet, that is usually a dead giveaway it's not a Hrothgar..... yes, I am still salty about equipment, why do you ask?

---

It doesn't really help that most Job sets have such significant and iconic hats. I can't wear a Mortarboard as a SCH, I can't wear the AST hat, I can't wear the BLM iconic hat either. At least I get the Summoner dong. And its a problem that keeps repeating with the new Job gear sets. Red Mage cap? Not for you. New PVP sets that are a recolor of old Job gear? Nope.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

At this stage, my fear is they're going to focus all their attention on PVP & the housing issue... I can just hear it now "There are other priorities, Hrothgars need to wait even longer". Anyone would think SE would have released a statement and gathered plenty of feedback by now.

---

That would require them acknowledging hrothgar, and they already stated it would take far longer to release hairstyles if people want proper hairs - which feedback largely indicates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

At this stage, my fear is they're going to focus all their attention on PVP & the housing issue... I can just hear it now "There are other priorities, Hrothgars need to wait even longer". Anyone would think SE would have released a statement and gathered plenty of feedback by now.

---

It's become obvious that they won't. They see this as a minor problem. A view likely exacerbated by how little people discuss Hrothgar and how often people come to their defence on the matter. A defence they frankly do not deserve as it's been made abundantly clear by the people who've examined their work and pointed out the flaws and solutions.

To me, it doesn't matter what SE says anymore. They've shown exactly who they prefer to listen. So I know there will be no statement being released about this. Question is how much until the bubble bursts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

That would require them acknowledging hrothgar, and they already stated it would take far longer to release hairstyles if people want proper hairs - which feedback largely indicates.

---

It's still work only they should be doing and that they need to do. It's not something that's optional; either they do it or they admit these races are meant to forever be incomplete. Our feedback so far has been clear, and proper character customization should have become a priority by now. Because other, far less used and less impactful aspects of gameplay have been categorized as a "priority" above fixing their stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GrimGale

It doesn't really help that most Job sets have such significant and iconic hats. I can't wear a Mortarboard as a SCH, I can't wear the AST hat, I can't wear the BLM iconic hat either. At least I get the Summoner dong. And its a problem that keeps repeating with the new Job gear sets. Red Mage cap? Not for you. New PVP sets that are a recolor of old Job gear? Nope.

---

At the very least, job gear should always have working hats. They made them work for WAR and RPR, dunno why they just say nope to BRD or RDM, jobs that are far more iconic for their hats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

It's still work only they should be doing and that they need to do. It's not something that's optional; either they do it or they admit these races are meant to forever be incomplete. Our feedback so far has been clear, and proper character customization should have become a priority by now. Because other, far less used and less impactful aspects of gameplay have been categorized as a "priority" above fixing their stuff.

---

I don't disagree that hrothgar (and viera) should be a higher priority, but I just don't believe they have any intentions to do so anytime soon. At this point, from the tone of the previous quote, hrothgar will most likely be doing without hairstyles until the earliest next expansion. The compromise is at least eventually hrothgar might get some quality hairs, though, admittedly, I am skeptical on how they will look or what they will be.

That's what I think the disconnect is with the community and SE. They likely consider hrothgar and viera as complete. I posted about this a couple weeks ago. To them, any updates to these races are just a bonus, and might play a role in why they are such a low priority.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allegor

At the very least, job gear should always have working hats. They made them work for WAR and RPR, dunno why they just say nope to BRD or RDM, jobs that are far more iconic for their hats.

---

Dragoons lvl 90 helmet also work but I would like to see the job hats happen since the new hairstyles hide the ears anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't disagree that hrothgar (and viera) should be a higher priority, but I just don't believe they have any intentions to do so anytime soon. At this point, from the tone of the previous quote, hrothgar will most likely be doing without hairstyles until the earliest next expansion. The compromise is at least eventually hrothgar might get some quality hairs, though, admittedly, I am skeptical on how they will look or what they will be.

That's what I think the disconnect is with the community and SE. They likely consider hrothgar and viera as complete. I posted about this a couple weeks ago. To them, any updates to these races are just a bonus, and might play a role in why they are such a low priority.

---

No, but that's what I mean. Sure that may be their outlook but they need to start listening to the people that actually engage with that content.

If that's the compromise, then I'd rather sit and wait for their next MMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

No, but that's what I mean. Sure that may be their outlook but they need to start listening to the people that actually engage with that content.

If that's the compromise, then I'd rather sit and wait for their next MMO.

---

I agree with you on that one. Both races need equal treatment like the other ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Otter_McTobbs

I agree with you on that one. Both races need equal treatment like the other ones.

---

it really is off-putting to hear that they care more about other races. like, not even lying about it either. just straight up... we don't care as much.

why even have separate races at that point. you're just torturing people. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denji

it really is off-putting to hear that they care more about other races. like, not even lying about it either. just straight up... we don't care as much.

why even have separate races at that point. you're just torturing people. :/

---

Pretty much my sentiment. I'd rather wait and see what else SE has in store for a future MMO and see if the races there are better designed and appealing. And then I'll completely ditch FF14 because it just feels soulless.

Great story, cool gameplay (at times). But when it comes to me feeling integrated into the game, feeling welcomed into the community and the content itself, it's lacking. And if I were a new player and I saw this much tug of war between the devs and the playerbase, I'd stay the hell away. Like many people likely are.

So, really? I asked this before and I'll ask again: Why are we here? Why include a race that no one but Yoshida (allegedly) asked for? If this is what we're going to get?

Also, I don't really subscribe to the idea they think these races are "fine". Not only does it go against our feedback for three years now (seriously, Square, nut up por favor), it really sounds asinine. So you have all these races, Au Ra having been included post ARR... and this is the best they got? Truly? I feel like the more we normalize that idea, the more they think it's fine.

Then again, I'm guessing "asinine" design is what we're going for lately, isn't it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

At this stage, my fear is they're going to focus all their attention on PVP & the housing issue... I can just hear it now "There are other priorities, Hrothgars need to wait even longer". Anyone would think SE would have released a statement and gathered plenty of feedback by now.

---

I'm worried about the topic because the only remaining post on the Japanese side of the forum has very few comments.
(70-80 vs 1610+ here)
We didn't get clear communication either or a form clearly telling us what options were on the table.

If a community manager comes by, could they let us know how the feedback is going or if more specific things/feedbacks are expected ?

Thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArtyTheHrothgar

I'm worried about the topic because the only remaining post on the Japanese side of the forum has very few comments.
(70-80 vs 1610+ here)
We didn't get clear communication either or a form clearly telling us what options were on the table.

If a community manager comes by, could they let us know how the feedback is going or if more specific things/feedbacks are expected ?

Thank you.

---

I think that the community manager came here only to deflect the situation and feed us hope that we will be listened to. When in reality they don't care and threw a translation in with the addition of gathering feedback in order to shut us up. Why wouldn't they come back and at least say if our feedback was taken or as you said ask for more specific stuff? We are as in the dark as before, we only have a translation with no action or confirmation now.

I might be the only one on this one, but I would be willing to wait until 7.0 if they came out and ask if we would be ok with us waiting for them to completely remake the models with customisation in mind. In this hypothetical scenario, we will get the data from our characters (Hrothgar) transferred into a general Midlander model, but given with the patch of 6.9 (maybe through the Moogle mail) a phial of fantasia, this will be given to everyone that has purchased Shadowbringers (cause only those have access to Hrothgar). So when 7.0 drops we will be able to turn the fantasia into our new revamped Hrothgar models.

This is a very drastic measure that would probably not happen, but I am curious if it would come to it and they see this as a better alternative. What would be your response, would you be ok with this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

I might be the only one on this one, but I would be willing to wait until 7.0 if they came out and ask if we would be ok with us waiting for them to completely remake the models with customisation in mind. In this hypothetical scenario, we will get the data from our characters (Hrothgar) transferred into a general Midlander model, but given with the patch of 6.9 (maybe through the Moogle mail) a phial of fantasia, this will be given to everyone that has purchased Shadowbringers (cause only those have access to Hrothgar). So when 7.0 drops we will be able to turn the fantasia into our new revamped Hrothgar models.

This is a very drastic measure that would probably not happen, but I am curious if it would come to it and they see this as a better alternative. What would be your response, would you be ok with this?

---

I'd be okay with waiting for 7.0 for a fully revamped race that addresses the core issues; namely the lack of hats and earless hairstyles. Maybe even fix the right leg on our sprint animation, since it looks like it's skipping a frame (or maybe it's just me).

I'd even be willing to switch back to Miqo'te today, if it meant we will get a better race in the future. But we all know this isn't going to happen. At most, they will throw a few scraps here and there while pampering the other races.

What I expect is sometime in the next six to twelve months, they’ll give us the same hairstyles Viera got in 6.1, and once more trot out how hard it is to do.

I haven't seen one Hrothgar with the new styles yet although granted i haven't seen that many but you'd think that alone will send a message to the devs cause they have to know how many are using them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

No, but that's what I mean. Sure that may be their outlook but they need to start listening to the people that actually engage with that content.

If that's the compromise, then I'd rather sit and wait for their next MMO.

---

I wish they would.

I think a lot of people are thinking that way. Having to wait another three years, for something that was thought to be expected from the beginning, just sucks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I haven't seen one Hrothgar with the new styles yet although granted i haven't seen that many but you'd think that alone will send a message to the devs cause they have to know how many are using them.

---

I've seen a couple, but I've only seen them using the bandana style.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I haven't seen one Hrothgar with the new styles yet

---

And why would you, when the only one that looks remotely acceptable costs $15? Why should we reward them with more money for stealing a Roegadyn’s scalp and beanie? When Miqo’te wear it, their ears still show, so it’s even more plain how absolutely no effort was put in. I’ve been doing a ton of CC and every single Hroth I see is using their original hairstyle. I think the message the devs will actually take away is “no one is using the new hairstyles, so why waste the money making more? Also, we need sugar cubes that are animated and 4k resolution, so better to devote the resources there instead.”

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chikatsu

I think the message the devs will actually take away is “no one is using the new hairstyles, so why waste the money making more? (..)"

---

I think that's exactly what they will take from this. Most likely cutting plans for more of these styles, and maybe by next expansion hrothgar might get something?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

I might be the only one on this one, but I would be willing to wait until 7.0 if they came out and ask if we would be ok with us waiting for them to completely remake the models with customisation in mind. In this hypothetical scenario, we will get the data from our characters (Hrothgar) transferred into a general Midlander model, but given with the patch of 6.9 (maybe through the Moogle mail) a phial of fantasia, this will be given to everyone that has purchased Shadowbringers (cause only those have access to Hrothgar). So when 7.0 drops we will be able to turn the fantasia into our new revamped Hrothgar models.

This is a very drastic measure that would probably not happen, but I am curious if it would come to it and they see this as a better alternative. What would be your response, would you be ok with this?

---

I'll wait for 7.0, but it's not like I expect much at this point. They've been making it clear what their priorities are. It's not like we can suddenly change their plan for the future, so we'll still get stuff like the ARR races being revamped. That won't be changed. Making it 5 years until there's any hints of improvement on this messy situation. 5 years of waiting... amazing outlook, lemme tell ya.

As for that hypothetical scenario... no thanks. I'd rather go full-on Miqo'te or go back to Roe than walking around with a squid face. Also, there won't be a 6.9 will there? xD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think that's exactly what they will take from this. Most likely cutting plans for more of these styles, and maybe by next expansion hrothgar might get something?

---

I think it's more in the context of "wowee, Hrothgars must really like their og hairstyles, no point in making more if they're already satisfied!" and less "Hrothgars don't want cheap Viera hand-me-down bob cuts that don't even fit them so we'll have to think of something unique for them"

And yes, I too have only seen 3 Hrothgars with Snow's hairstyle, and all 3 were former Roes so it's likely they already had it just collecting dust the past 3 years. Ngl, I was fully expecting to see at least one "female Hrothgar" around Limsa, but I guess we still have some dignity left

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allegor

And yes, I too have only seen 3 Hrothgars with Snow's hairstyle, and all 3 were former Roes so it's likely they already had it just collecting dust the past 3 years. Ngl, I was fully expecting to see at least one "female Hrothgar" around Limsa, but I guess we still have some dignity left

---

Not even the people who make meme characters, Hrothgar or of any other kind, think those hairs stick xD

Also one thing on this thread that I noticed after checking out other tabs than "General" and "PVP"... People are upset. People are angry. People are impatient after having waited 3 years for something that ended up being of cheap quality, fearing that they will only have any attention come 7.0... and even then. Because we feel like our race is being completely set aside, and any explanation we've gotten has either been underwhelming, lies or dismissive. I want to be more understanding toward the dev team and be more patient considering how much of a mess this is even to them, I really do, but they're making it hard with how they've been treating Hrothgar since implementation.

But holy hell, this place has been far more courteous than the SAM Freakout going on in the DPS tab.

If you guys want actual whining, just take a peek in there, it's surreal. It makes the Hrothgar outrage look like mewling kittens.
Thankfully though, I think people will find a lot more feedback about what we want in this one thread and the Viera\Hrothgar megathread than they'll find on that tab as a whole xD

No matter what Theresa's tags say.

Hopefuly Square will know how to sift through said feedback.

Oof. I just returned since last patch and was looking forward to new hair and maybe changing the race up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allegor

I think it's more in the context of "wowee, Hrothgars must really like their og hairstyles, no point in making more if they're already satisfied!" and less "Hrothgars don't want cheap Viera hand-me-down bob cuts that don't even fit them so we'll have to think of something unique for them"

And yes, I too have only seen 3 Hrothgars with Snow's hairstyle, and all 3 were former Roes so it's likely they already had it just collecting dust the past 3 years. Ngl, I was fully expecting to see at least one "female Hrothgar" around Limsa, but I guess we still have some dignity left

---

I don't know if I'd go that far. Yoshida did acknowledge that hrothgar players wanted hairstyles, supposedly people say he looked annoyed too. I don't think he really wants to do custom hairs, but it sounded in the quote like he would do so... eventually, if players wanted it.

It's probably the least bad looking one, it would probably look pretty good if the ears worked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't know if I'd go that far. Yoshida did acknowledge that hrothgar players wanted hairstyles, supposedly people say he looked annoyed too. I don't think he really wants to do custom hairs, but it sounded in the quote like he would do so... eventually, if players wanted it.

It's probably the least bad looking one, it would probably look pretty good if the ears worked.

---

Players want it. Players have been wanting it for years now. He's got nothing to be annoyed about, Hrothgar have done absolutely nothing to incur such a response from him. We're not the Samurai in the DPS Roles tab. Nor are we the people who spammed :crab emoji: MALE VIERA :crab emoji: every darn stream.

And the snow beanie actually does look fine with ears if the modded version's anything to go by.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

I might be the only one on this one, but I would be willing to wait until 7.0 if they came out and ask if we would be ok with us waiting for them to completely remake the models with customisation in mind. In this hypothetical scenario, we will get the data from our characters (Hrothgar) transferred into a general Midlander model, but given with the patch of 6.9 (maybe through the Moogle mail) a phial of fantasia, this will be given to everyone that has purchased Shadowbringers (cause only those have access to Hrothgar). So when 7.0 drops we will be able to turn the fantasia into our new revamped Hrothgar models.

This is a very drastic measure that would probably not happen, but I am curious if it would come to it and they see this as a better alternative. What would be your response, would you be ok with this?

---

If they would went with that, I'd leave that shitshow forever.

The more, why fiddling code inside a live enviroment? A proper development area would keep both separated as much as possible, if not all at best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't know if I'd go that far. Yoshida did acknowledge that hrothgar players wanted hairstyles, supposedly people say he looked annoyed too. I don't think he really wants to do custom hairs, but it sounded in the quote like he would do so... eventually, if players wanted it.

It's probably the least bad looking one, it would probably look pretty good if the ears worked.

---

Honestly, if they had kept the ears with the recently added hairstyles, I would have still been a little disappointed, though largely because none of them are really...for me, I guess. But I would have viewed it as a start. What we got was not a start. It was an abomination, and it was pretty insulting to boot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't know if I'd go that far. Yoshida did acknowledge that hrothgar players wanted hairstyles, supposedly people say he looked annoyed too. I don't think he really wants to do custom hairs, but it sounded in the quote like he would do so... eventually, if players wanted it.

It's probably the least bad looking one, it would probably look pretty good if the ears worked.

---

I mean, I don't want to single out Yoshi P in the matter, but him and/or the other devs are years too late to claim "they didn't know" when hairstyles like Windcaller has been requested since its addition to be usable for Hrothgars (and is likely one of the most popular mods), and the Bozja npc made it seem like the "new" hairstyles to come would just be switched versions of the 8 they already had, or at least 1 of them for each head. We can now switch between the hairstyles that share the same face so really, that would've sufficed.

Let's be honest, even if they hadn't chop off Hroth ears to fit, out of ALL the default and acquirable(?) hairstyles, did they genuinely believe people wanted pretty boy/emo/obviously female styles? for the most "macho" race next to Roegadyn? of course not, because those hairstyles weren't even selected for Hrothgars, they literally just copy-pasted the ones Viera got, because even when their actual male counterparts now exist, Viera and Hrothgar are still seemingly considered a single race - or rather, Hrothgar are now Viera's third wheel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allegor

I mean, I don't want to single out Yoshi P in the matter, but him and/or the other devs are years too late to claim "they didn't know" when hairstyles like Windcaller has been requested since its addition to be usable for Hrothgars (and is likely one of the most popular mods), and the Bozja npc made it seem like the "new" hairstyles to come would just be switched versions of the 8 they already had, or at least 1 of them for each head. We can now switch between the hairstyles that share the same face so really, that would've sufficed.

Let's be honest, even if they hadn't chop off Hroth ears to fit, out of ALL the default and acquirable(?) hairstyles, did they genuinely believe people wanted pretty boy/emo/obviously female styles? for the most "macho" race next to Roegadyn? of course not, because those hairstyles weren't even selected for Hrothgars, they literally just copy-pasted the ones Viera got, because even when their actual male counterparts now exist, Viera and Hrothgar are still seemingly considered a single race - or rather, Hrothgar are now Viera's third wheel.

---

Issue is that what suffices for them ended up taking a roundabout way. Like, yeah we can change our hairstyles to the one that shares our face style. But we can't change our hairstyle to other races, and to make it happen, they had to basically make new head models just to accomodate the change.
Meaning you change to a different head altogether just to change hairstyles. No other race has to deal with this.

It's clear that they don't have anything prepared for Hrothgar, but rather than being honest about it and just tell us "We're going to do stuff for you guys in this patch, and it will be this, this and that", they just up and scrounge up what little they have.

I really do wish we were taken a bit more seriously and not as the meme race. If he's so upset that we tell him we want stuff, then he should know how upset we are when he provides crap that just smells like he didn't care. I wonder how Yoshida would have felt knowing 1.0 players thought the exact same from their dev team.

We're not the counterpart to Vieras, Square. Stop thinking that. Viera already got their own counterpart and have to deal with problems you still refuse to fix. We're a completely different beast. One that's bigger than anyone else and the one you're deciding to ignore the most.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Players want it. Players have been wanting it for years now. He's got nothing to be annoyed about, Hrothgar have done absolutely nothing to incur such a response from him. We're not the Samurai in the DPS Roles tab. Nor are we the people who spammed :crab emoji: MALE VIERA :crab emoji: every darn stream. And the snow beanie actually does look fine with ears if the modded version's anything to go by.

---

I mean, of course, but I'm saying he actually acknowledged player concerns. Back in ShB Viera/hrothgar were pretty much just not talked about... at all. I remember being there with many others on here, thinking if this next update would finally be the one we'd get our new hairs, or if we'd even get an update on the situation. It wasn't really until the end of ShB that either were even really talked about again.

I'd say, if he is annoyed, it has to do with the fact that their intention was most likely to leave these races as is after launch (minimal) support, and that's the only reason they were approved and made in the first place. It likely was never in the plans to spend too much time or resources on them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Honestly, if they had kept the ears with the recently added hairstyles, I would have still been a little disappointed, though largely because none of them are really...for me, I guess. But I would have viewed it as a start. What we got was not a start. It was an abomination, and it was pretty insulting to boot.

---

In a weird way this might have been a blessing in disquise. If these hairs would have come out in an acceptable enough quality, probably only needed to have their ears still visible, these hairs might have been all hrothgar would get.. Granted, that really depends on how long it will actually take for them to do custom hairs for hrothgar, and what these custom hairs would be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allegor

I mean, I don't want to single out Yoshi P in the matter, but him and/or the other devs are years too late to claim "they didn't know" when hairstyles like Windcaller has been requested since its addition to be usable for Hrothgars (and is likely one of the most popular mods), and the Bozja npc made it seem like the "new" hairstyles to come would just be switched versions of the 8 they already had, or at least 1 of them for each head. We can now switch between the hairstyles that share the same face so really, that would've sufficed.

Let's be honest, even if they hadn't chop off Hroth ears to fit, out of ALL the default and acquirable(?) hairstyles, did they genuinely believe people wanted pretty boy/emo/obviously female styles? for the most "macho" race next to Roegadyn? of course not, because those hairstyles weren't even selected for Hrothgars, they literally just copy-pasted the ones Viera got, because even when their actual male counterparts now exist, Viera and Hrothgar are still seemingly considered a single race - or rather, Hrothgar are now Viera's third wheel.

---

I'm honestly not sure if a lot of player feedback actually reaches Yoshida, however I question him thinking this is what players would want.. it seems quite unlikely, and that's if they came out with ears. In the state they were launching in, I wonder if he truly thought people would accept them, because anyone could look at those hairs and see how bad they looked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I mean, of course, but I'm saying he actually acknowledged player concerns. Back in ShB Viera/hrothgar were pretty much just not talked about... at all. I remember being there with many others on here, thinking if this next update would finally be the one we'd get our new hairs, or if we'd even get an update on the situation. It wasn't really until the end of ShB that either were even really talked about again.

I'd say, if he is annoyed, it has to do with the fact that their intention was most likely to leave these races as is after launch (minimal) support, and that's the only reason they were approved and made in the first place. It likely was never in the plans to spend too much time or resources on them.

---

No, I understand that, I truly do. I'm just pointing out that despite his intentions, player feedback clearly rose in support for these races. He should have at least expected it, and if he didn't, then he should have told people flat-out "No" by now rather than making vacant promises. This being a dev team that prides itself on listening to feedback when it can... yeah. Also that his intentions, if those are the ones he had, are kinda stupid ._. but that I'll admit is a personal bias.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I'm honestly not sure if a lot of player feedback actually reaches Yoshida, however I question him thinking this is what players would want.. it seems quite unlikely, and that's if they came out with ears. In the state they were launching in, I wonder if he truly thought people would accept them, because anyone could look at those hairs and see how bad they looked.

---

I don't know how 2Hroth got rendered in that state, approved, printed, placed in his folder and shown on-camera without people telling him "You're really going for that? Do you want players to get riled up?"

If this is the extent of their feedback, then

a) The community leaders really need to step it up rather than just show up here and dump what we already know. They're the ones who sift through feedback, after all.
b) People need to realize that the dev team isn't listening as much as they insist they do. Or at least not when it matters.
c) ...yeah, how did that go with 1.0?
d) They themselves need to start listening. Samurai changes? People here are having a moment, but it's still played heavily in-game. Housing? I'm guessing they're dealing with it? But other than that one Hrothgar in this thread that came out in support for these hairstyles, I haven't seen a single Hrothgar in-game wearing them.

Guess the only other way to voice our opinion is by sending bug reports on our characters xD "Hey, this isn't working as intended, nowhere did you guys tell us we would have Limited Races for this long, and it's clear that something is up. The work here was shoddy. Please review it. Properly this time."

Edit: I'll just link to this thread comment and say "Yeah they really should just hold the L and admit that it was a dumb expectation to have. It's not the first time, I've mentioned Diadem before. So him being upset that he now has to deal with fans demanding this? As dumb as he himself thinks the demand itself is dumb."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Guess the only other way to voice our opinion is by sending bug reports on our characters xD "Hey, this isn't working as intended, nowhere did you guys tell us we would have Limited Races for this long, and it's clear that something is up. The work here was shoddy. Please review it. Properly this time."

---

honestly, that doesn't sound like a bad idea at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

...

---

In the vacuum of them perhaps not having a 10-year plan, and the future of FFXIV in question, viera/hrothgar release state makes a lot more sense. It was stated, at the time, as being their "last chance" to add races. Looking at it from that perspective, having one last update to player races, a fan favorite (viera), and a beast race to round out the races was a good idea.

In light of their now being a "10-year plan" now, it doesn't look too good. I think the issue is now, that since they plan on maintaining and updating the game for so many more years, viera/hrothgar - especially hrothgar - design philosophy should have been changed, and it doesn't seem to have. Other than some minor updates, that seemingly take the least amount of effort and resources.


Yep, that's my biggest question. Who seriously thought it was a good idea to release this? Unless they just had nothing else, had been making promises, viera had gotten some hairs, so they had to do something for hrothgar, regardless on whether it looked good or not. To try and give the appearance like they were listening to players, and trying to update them. Maybe they thought releasing nothing would look worse?

I do think they need to listen to more player feedback, but other than something going viral across Twitter, it just doesn't seem to get to them - that or they are ignoring it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

snippy

---

Yeah, in that time frame it did make sense. But even back then people assumed the races would be complete. Not with counterparts, but with proper hairstyles or at least the ability to change hairstyles and the ability to wear headgear. Yet nothing was done for three years, and instead we just heard last year "Oh, Male Viera are coming, Female Hrothgar will be added later". While the issues still lingered.

So now knowing that their 10-year plan MIGHT include us makes the situation feel awkward all the same. Keep in mind, they decided to update the older races. Rather than finish the ones they started. Why? :| Again, I mentioned this before but the idea that this overhaul will make a new, polished character-creation system that might fix the issues with races is not only erroneous (it won't have any impact on customization), it'll delay the problem. Meaning they'll add more and more content that will need to be fixed.

And it won't be 10 years. It'll be 8. Because we know the following 2 years will be spent designing female Hrothgar and updating the aforementioned ARR races. Two more years of being unequal to everyone else. Their design philosophy hasn't changed, despite us asking them to reconsider given this is their decision.

On the topic of changing hairstyles though... Something doesn't feel right. We've heard nothing for so long, they didn't even mention the Aesthetician. Then suddenly the Aesthetician works, but in a clearly poor state and the only mention of it being in the release Patch Notes? After this thread exploded? Did they seriously only work on that after we brought attention to it? Because I doubt they had this ready any sooner given the state it's in where they duplicated heads. That sort of thing only shows how much this thread was needed, and how much they need to stop ignoring it.

This would also explain why it seems they truly had nothing. They had nothing until the very end, and they didn't even bother to make it look presentable and cover that fact.

Maybe twitter won't work. And it's clear the OF's only served for Yoshida to tell some poor sod to come here and regurgitate his answer. Again, maybe protesting in-game with stuff we know will reach them works?