Right now they're probably only looking at subs and the number of people queuing into Pagos. So we'd need for everyone who doesn't like Pagos to, you know, stop going in there, with some people cutting their subs. Only then would SE actually take into account the many voices shouting in protest. Otherwise, we might as well be trolling a brick wall for all it's worth.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrimace
So, how is Pagos?
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08-13-2018, 06:36 PMAster_E
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08-13-2018, 07:32 PMHanayumi
Have a couple issues Pagos, not much pertaining to the usual exp/nm spawn rates though...
1) This really should have been added in a earlier patch, having such this late in a patch makes the actual weapon pretty damn useless with the next ilv increase right around the corner...
2) Awesome massive ice tower thing and we dont actually use any of it... kinda thought that geyser would send us up there but guess not... bit of a bummer...
3) Northwest aetheryte should really have its level somewhere around 27 or 28 as that's about the level most people are around there, 30 seems bit too high and that death trap of a path up there is just way...... too annoying to get thru every freaking time... -
08-13-2018, 07:53 PMZojhaThere were similar threads for Anemos back in the day with over 1k upvotes.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrimace
Don't get your hopes up. -
08-13-2018, 07:56 PMTheGrimaceWell, crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zojha
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08-13-2018, 08:09 PMZojhaBasically.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrimace
Wanna know the irony? They were mostly from before the train got rolling, when people were still playing that content "as intended". Their criticisms were very much aimed at the exact gameplay that they tried to encourage in Pagos. Similar to this forum actually, which also mellowed out when the train got discovered. Whatever they did with the feedback, they certainly did not read it carefully. Or at all. Who knows?
In the end, what matters IMO is whether people will do it. I wouldn't be surprised if their awkward "more than we expected, people enjoyed Eureka for the heck of it" comment I linked earlier was also based on some internal statistics, like them interpreting unopened lockboxes or people farming tomes as "not going in for rewards, but for fun". -
08-13-2018, 08:50 PMathisvolume!00% agree. I hated Anemos at first but it really grew on me. I was really excited for Pagos because I was expecting Anemos 2.0 but it's just been a huge letdown. It feels like when you're a kid and you open that Christmas present you really want and you've been hinting about for months..but it turns out to be socks. You try to be nice about it but it's super depressing. That's Pagos - except it's not a gift, you get to pay for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperia
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08-13-2018, 11:37 PMKiriezaikumy 2 gil
My overall feeling is that SE has no idea how to listen to its players anymore, and Pagos is the proof of that.
In Anemos, we found a way to make the unforgiving lengthy and sometimes physically painful chain grind into a more bearable, sometimes even fun experience with the NM train. People worked together to get it done. People were friendly. We traveled in a pack, creating rez leapfrog to not leave even the lowest level player behind. People would go out of their way to run back in the case of a straggler, because no one wanted that death penalty. It still took forever to get you weapon and your armor, but you felt progress being made for all the time spent.
For Pagos, well, for starters it seems like SE had a hissyfit with "the NM train was not how we intended this to be played", and took a rather awful approach with "fixing" Eureka. For the most part, chain grinding you way into carpal tunnel is the vast majority of any progress to be made, with the NMs far more difficult to spawn. Of course, the monsters are hp bloated as ever, and you need to fight monsters 5-6 levels above you own to really see any progress however slight. But wait! Let's make it so that you have to have a party of people with similar level or else it completely screws some people on xp! Got that friend that can't play as much as you so he's a lower level? Well poopoo on him, you can't help him because your level is too far above his! Want to have a weekend FC run with friends but everyone's level is all over the chart? Nope! It can take upwards of 20 min just to get into a party, sometimes even having to instance swap just to find a level-friendly group at all.
So overall the attitude in Pagos is... well people are pretty grumpy to put it mildly. After finally achieving a workable party, chances are you're in for a 15+ min hike through certain death just to get to an optimal level area to chain yourselves into oblivion. And you gotta get those chains! Oh wait a party member has to piddle or his child jumped out a window or he can't feel his hands anymore so he needs an afk sec? Crap our chain dropped let's just yell at him for not making us first in his life! Better yet, kick him out of the party, yeah that'll teach him a lesson! Oh hey, a NM spawned! Okay let's return and make our way through the lengthy map and pray that we make it in time cause the people already there have no intention on slowing down the nuke-fest cause poopoo on you, shoulda been here, move faster! I mean I need that NM! Cause I'm gonna need 500 bloody crystals just for a single weapon and these guys are handing out crumbs!
Then there's the death. There's a lot of death. Remember rez leapfrog? Yeah not a thing. Remember going back for the fallen? Yeah right, not happening. People are dropping like flies, and begging to be saved until they time out and take that quite franky unacceptable penalty. No one wants to break their chain to help a fallen soul, or a fallen party. The few that try sometimes end up in the mass grave as well, begging for someone to save them the xp loss. The helpful people have dried up and become bitter as heck in this winding, death-filled wasteland.
And hey! Gerolt! I love you but why is it you can make a magic kettle I need to fill, what 31 times per weapon I believe but you can't convert the flippin thing into usable material yourself and instead send us out to the middle of nowhere, risking death alone in a ditch cause really, no one in your party is gonna come help if they don't actually need to go down there too.
I won't even really touch on the bunny thing too much because I want to slap whoever thought it was a good idea to make a fate that gives no xp and a slim chance to get a bunny who drags you into a cluster of monsters to get a chest that has a majority chance of giving you garbage but a slim one of getting you an item so that you can get gold in a fate cause really getting gold in a fate should be about rng... Seriously. Geez.
I know the purpose of the relic is to have a grindy, little easier and more casual method to obtain weapons, made for those who don't care for or just can't do savages for the top tier stuff. But this is completely out of hand, and feels like a middle finger to those of us that don't do that top tier stuff. I'm not crying for a nerf, just for some consideration on the massive undertaking Pagos is for quite frankly, a minimal reward and a weapon that will be borderline obsolete by the time most of us obtain it.
Sorry for the lengthy rant, after a week of aggravation and ice packs on my wrist in Pagos, having only gotten to lv27 has left me frustrated and kind of achy. In the hopes that maybe some of this makes its way to the people that made this, and really understand what we're dealing with, I let it all out.
I know that I yelled about all the mean and rude and grumpy people, and that there are also a lot of good ones left, people that do go out of their way to help and for them I appreciate and /dote you a lot! Keep it up and so will this RZM! -
08-13-2018, 11:43 PMInkstainedGwyn
Also, didn't they say that Pagos was supposed to be "solo-friendly"? What a load that was. Being able to go in without a group and join another group does not consist of soloing, they need to learn the difference.
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08-14-2018, 12:00 AMSunAurel
If only the dev team would stop having their head up their ass and listen to the NA/EU community for once.
What is Pagos supposed to do? At the end we are gettin a weapon only good for glamour because most of us either have the Diamond Weapons or the upgraded Tomestone weapons. Then we also have the Tsukuyomi and the HoH Weapons who also have a quite passable ilvl.
A casual player - let's say someone who does not do Savage Raids - already has the upgraded tomestone weapon. They are casuals. They don't want to spend 6 hours a day getting carpal tunnel syndrome for a weapon that is only barely better than the one they already have because they play the game CASUALLY
SE, when we said GLAMOUR IS THE TRUE ENDGAME this was NOT what we meant!
I work full time and I took a week off when Pagos came out and after a week of playing more than average I am only around lvl 24. And I did the whole ideal exp grind + challenge log in a group thing.
But that was my week off. Next week when I have to work I'll only have time to play around 2-3 hours a day at max and I am not the only one that has that problem because we fall behind MASSIVELY. Pagos actively discourages you to help lower level players out because you get such a huge penalty for having someone who does not optimal damage or is a few level lower as yourself. ELevel did not really mean anyhting in Anemos because the Fate Train - while flawed - provided you with a good way to catch up, socialize, have some sort of fun, and work together with other groups. Pagos is just...mob grinding.
I'll repeat what I said in another thread. Pagis is not Difficult. Pagos is very easy. Pagos is mind numbingly easy. The only thing that makes it 'hard' is finding the time in your life to do it for a piece of glamour that might look good in a later stage because stat wise it will be obsolete in a few weeks.
Whoever designed Pagos, whoever sanctioned it, and whoever thought this was a good idea needs to sit down and grind in that bulls*** for hours only to die trying to make their way to a fate and have NO ONE come to rez them because everyone needs to keep their chains or else they'll lose their progress. Then they should have to respawn and delevel, losing all the progress they made in those hours.
It's not fun. I pay for fun. I pay for a challenge, that's why people love savage raids. They are challenging, fun, and offer an adequate reward. Pagos is easy, unfun, LONG, and just EXTREMELY PUNISHING with no sense of progression
How to make it better?
- Get rid of the death penalty, seriously.
- Increase the NM spawns to make a FATE train possible
- For the next part of Eureka MAKE THE WEAPON ACTUALLY WORTH GETTING OUTSIDE OF GLAMOUR
- include daily quests
- Don't make it punishing if you help other players out. -
08-14-2018, 02:06 AMMageBlack
Still enjoying Pagos. I find it interesting though, all the things that people are complaining about are the reasons why i like it.
"Too long of a grind" its really not that bad. I've only gone in there three times and i gain a level each time i get in and i'm only there for about an hour. I'm as casual as it comes and i'm having no issues getting exp. I think the problem is people are trying to do the NM train like they did in Anemos and it just doesnt work that way. Get an exp party and farm your Challenge log, if an NM spawns, break camp, participate, then go back. This is how Anemos SHOULD have been.
"its boring" I find it a great chance to practice my rotations, try and enhance my DPS, socialize, and I have never seen the limit break used as much as its used in here, thats pretty cool. yeah, it can be a little monotonous but the same thing can be said of all content in this game. At least here i'm present during the fights, gotta be on the look out for strays that come in cause you dont want to die and lose exp.
"Death penalty sucks!" Good! it is supposed to suck to die. Its not that big of a deal anyway since it is so busy in there, someone can always come raise you. makes it so you dont really want to stray too far from the group.
This is not to say that there isnt room for improvement.
Some people mentioned "they said you could solo" that is an issue, you should be able to solo for decent exp based on level and time to kill it. its more cost effective to get a chain party but you should be able to do it on your own to some degree. I tried to solo the mandys just out the gate and it slayed me uber fast.
Party level sync is desperately needed. I have a few friends that might be more inclined to join if we could party together but our eLev's are so out of whack its not effective at all to do that.
Could be more mysteries, other spawn mechanisms, maybe some kind of open world dungeon to fight your way through, among other nifty suggestions. But looking at this content compared to other side content they added, (LoV, Squadrons, GC rank, Ventures, Guildhests, Diadem, etc) Eureka and Deep Dungeon are the only content beyond the dungeon grind that Ive played and enjoyed. Just like anything though, dont burn yourself out on it.