PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

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Originally Posted by Fyce

It's not sad to hope for people to start doing what they are supposed to do, which is using their skills and toolkit to their fullest instead of slacking and getting carried.

What's sad is people who make the apology of a lazy and egoistic attitude. It's like putting mediocrity on a pedestal.
Dragging the community down by staying a dead weight is the sad thing.

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The fact of the matter is that is RARELY happens in DF. It's really not an issue in duties I'm in, and I've done over 7000 of them. The fact of the matter is it's a problem with some and it is probably pretty common because they are the ones who initiate the kick every chance they get.

People aren't dragging the community down. You are not the community.

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Originally Posted by Lissandra

Is this that big of a issue? I've been in plenty of groups (and still get them) where the healer doesn't dps at all and I've yet to see anyone initiate a kick against them. I don't initiate kicks for this either. Sometimes, I want to think it's the vocal forum goers who say they will, but the majority who don't frequent the forums/the lurkers don't do it.

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welcome to Forum Fantasy XIV
Healer DPS is a great amusement in this
I would say healer could DPS, but not must, and i wouldnt mind a healer do only healing
I run 4 man/8 man/24 man via DF 99% of time, no way the healer could tell how other party members perform, in that case a healer play safe, conserve MP/GCD for emergency is totally understandable
even the healer just do feel like DPS, it is fine for me, i just want to complete the Duty
unfortunately, it become a big deal when it come to Forum Fantasy XIV

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

The fact of the matter is that is RARELY happens in DF. It's really not an issue in duties I'm in, and I've done over 7000 of them. The fact of the matter is it's a problem with some and it is probably pretty common because they are the ones who initiate the kick every chance they get.

People aren't dragging the community down. You are not the community.

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Rarely happens? You're either lying or you never do any roulette or pug PF. The number of players underperforming by a large marging and refusing to improve is actually quite high.
The "you don't pay my sub" and "I'm a healer, so I'll only heal" players are real. Heck we have some of them in this very thread.

Here, have a read of these 966 pages of people venting for that exact reason.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Rarely happens? You're either lying or you never do any roulette or pug PF. The number of players underperforming by a large marging and refusing to improve is actually quite high.
The "you don't pay my sub" and "I'm a healer, so I'll only heal" players are real.

Here, have a read of these 966 pages of people venting for that exact reason.

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No I'm not lying. Don't categorize my statement as a lie because it isn't. I have 9 275 relics so roulettes were my bread and butter. I duty finder all the time. I have my main and 5 (FIVE) fully functional alts, all of which are geared at 270. I was earning 3600 scripture a week for a few weeks doing it and can't recall an instance where people were called out. People rarely get kicked and rarely get called out for what you consider to be underperformance.

And if you mean people like you on forums like this, then sure it's common place here but it sure isn't so in the real world of duty finder

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Rarely happens? You're either lying or you never do any roulette or pug PF. The number of players underperforming by a large marging and refusing to improve is actually quite high.
The "you don't pay my sub" and "I'm a healer, so I'll only heal" players are real. Heck we have some of them in this very thread.

Here, have a read of these 966 pages of people venting for that exact reason.

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Er, you do realize that we forum people are a small portion of the playerbase/community, right?

While I do dps as a healer, and wish all healers would at least try to... reality is Layla is correct in her assessment. IME, the issue is really only a big deal here.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

No I'm not lying. See don't categorize my statement as a lie because it isn't. I party finder all the time. I have my main and 5 (FIVE) fully funtional alts, all of which are geared at 270. I was earning 3600 scripture a week for a few weeks doing it. Don't tell me it's common because it isn't. People rarely get kicked and rarely get called out for what you consider to be underperformance.

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Fine, I'll then call for the third option: you're really, really lucky.

Whatever the case, it's not sad to say that people draging the overall performance level of the entire community is an issue. This was my point.
And it's not "what I consider" what is underperforming. A player who's not using his full toolkit and who has an horrendous CPM is objectively underperforming. Ice mages are underperforming BLM. "I'm a healer so I'll only heal" are underperforming healers. A bard not using Requiem when the party can deal magic damage is underperforming. It's not an opinion. It's a mathematical and statistical fact. Takes a bit of common sense too.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

Er, you do realize that we forum people are a small portion of the playerbase/community, right?

While I do dps as a healer, and wish all healers would at least try to... reality is Layla is correct in her assessment. IME, the issue is really only a big deal here.

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It's not because a part of something is "small" that it's not representative. Otherwise the concept of surveys would be pointless, and voicing our expectations on the forum would be pointless. But you know, like me, that a lot of things are currently in the game because "forum people" asked for it.

Besides, I absolutly do not believe that healers not DPSing, tanks not properly holding aggro and not using their cooldowns, DPS not doing what they should be doing to improve their overall damage output, is something that nobody actually sees on a daily basis ingame. I experience it personally extremely frequently... but I have a felling that you're gonna say that my personal experience doesn't matter, as I'm only one person and a "forum people" at that.
I mean, if even 10k messages on a single thread isn't enough to convince you (it's the population of some servers, btw), then probably nothing can.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Fine, I'll then call for the third option: you're really, really lucky.

Whatever the case, it's not sad to say that people draging the overall performance level of the entire community is an issue. This was my point.

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And her point was that *THIS* is not the community. It is a portion of the community,. which is greatly outweighed by the other part of the community we are "lucky" about meeting in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

And her point was that *THIS* is not the community. It is a portion of the community,. which is greatly outweighed by the other part of the community we are "lucky" about meeting in dungeons.

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I never said that the official forums were the whole community. Don't put words in my mouth. You are probably not understanding what I meant when I said that these kind of encounters were "frequent".

What I'm saying is that players who are not using their full toolkit for personal reasons such as "I'm a healer, I only heal", or "you don't pay my sub, I play how I want", or "my character is an ice mage!", or "I don't need to use cooldowns, you are here to heal me", etc. are an issue. My take on it is that even if 1% of the playerbase is like that, it's still too high, as I can't stand lazy and selfish people who affect others negatively without giving a f*ck.

If you don't think that this is an issue to be worth taking in consideration, then just go your way, others will be there to care about it because they think that getting rid of these kind of negative behaviors in order to have a more healthy ingame community, is important.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

If you don't think that this is an issue to be worth taking in consideration, then just go your way, others will be there to care about it because they think that getting rid of these kind of negative behaviors in order to have a more healthy ingame community, is important.

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The thing is, you (nor I nor any singular entity) gets to decide what qualifies as a healthy community. I have my personal opinions on how I would like to people to play (which are very similar to yours), however, at the end of the day if the masses decide playing a lower level than that is what they want... then their way turns out to be what is healthier. Majority rules and all that.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Rarely happens? You're either lying or you never do any roulette or pug PF. The number of players underperforming by a large marging and refusing to improve is actually quite high.
The "you don't pay my sub" and "I'm a healer, so I'll only heal" players are real. Heck we have some of them in this very thread.

Here, have a read of these 966 pages of people venting for that exact reason.

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I call BS. I PUG everything because I'm too lazy to bug people, and 97/100 times the healers will be riding Cleric Stance so hard I feel obligated to cut back on my own rotation so they can have their fun.