Dark Knight Megathread

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Originally Posted by ItsUrBoi

Its just crazy to me how badly balanced War is compared to other tanks. The damage is now also the same or very similar, however their defensives are not the same.
Looking at general tank situations for damage you always find yourself in one of these situations:
- auto attack damage: at which warrior is arguably king with Bloodwhetting.
- one big hit: at which warrior is king again unless the hit is magical in which case DRK has a slight advantage
- several smaller hits: at which warrior is again king due to Thrill and Equilibrium and Bloodwhetting.
- you need to invuln? Warrior beacause holmgang's cooldown is the shortest and you have tools to heal yourself back to full very easily.

Just look at the amount of situations I listed and you will realize Warrior is incredibly busted, while DRK kind of lacks behind in mostly every department, I'd even say even now in terms of party mitigation you can buff shake it off to be a 21% YOUR maximum HP on each party member for any type of damage, and a heal and a regen, compared to a 10% magical for 15 seconds, which is only better for consecutive hits in a short amount of time.

What can a DRK do against boss auto attacks? Nothing, sacrifice an important cooldown like Rampart or pray TBN breaks.
What can DRK do if it lost HP from any source and the healers are busy AoE healing the party? Nothing.
What can DRK do against non magical damage that hits hard? Not a lot, you may survive sure, but Warrior does it much much better.
What can DRK do against consecutive non magical attacks? Same as above, you will probably live, but Warrior does it much much better and easier, which means less healer attentions which means more desirable.

I ain't saying every job should be Warrior level of self sustain, but maybe add new abilities that solve some of these issues while playing to a job's identity and core?
-> Salted earth can grant a regen if you step in it once, and the regen effect lingers on you, salt and darkness heals you.
-> Dark Arts could heal you

Don't copy paste Warrior design to DRK, Delirium is already messed up as it is an Inner Release copy. At least making it a combo can grant unique animations.

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To return to DRK feedback and discussion, I brought this post a bit over a month ago. It contains an immensely reworked DRK up to level 90, and two variants of it (one with and without Blood Gauge):
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...28with-link%29

Both version have better sustain, low level mit, and it's own combat identity again. It's to bring the feeling of old Dark Knight while fitting it to the modern XIV. I'm still open to feedback on it, if anyone wants to provide their thoughts. I do believe these could use some refinement, but I'll need input or flat out suggestions.

If you just want to see them and provide your thoughts here, here are the links. I would highly suggest reading my OP in the thread though, it does contain details on them and what changes have been made.

Blood Gauge version:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...fsW06Fu4I/edit

Dark Descent version:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...fsf51NfBg/edit

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Originally Posted by Zairava

To return to DRK feedback and discussion, I brought this post a bit over a month ago. It contains an immensely reworked DRK up to level 90, and two variants of it (one with and without Blood Gauge):
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...28with-link%29

Both version have better sustain, low level mit, and it's own combat identity again. It's to bring the feeling of old Dark Knight while fitting it to the modern XIV. I'm still open to feedback on it, if anyone wants to provide their thoughts. I do believe these could use some refinement, but I'll need input or flat out suggestions.

If you just want to see them and provide your thoughts here, here are the links. I would highly suggest reading my OP in the thread though, it does contain details on them and what changes have been made.

Blood Gauge version:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...fsW06Fu4I/edit

Dark Descent version:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...fsf51NfBg/edit

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Many of the other suggestions (if not all of them) that I've seen do not address the boring GCD rotation for below level 50 which is where you PROBABLY want players to stay interested in if you plan making old content still relevant, and instead having unnecessary slogs to get a new weaponskill/spell/ability/trait, which even IF Dark Knight got its Blood Gauge abilities to below level 50, it would only change how Dark Knight is played in below 50 content SLIGHTLY, Similar to how Warrior gets their Beast Gauge below level 50 but have the benefit of having 5 total GCDs to work with instead of 3 or 4.

And the GCD is the ONE game mechanic that is MANDATORY to interact with to actually clear content on Extreme/Savage/Ultimate fights, and the last thing you want to do is make players bored of your game because the gameplay doesn't look cool enough...

But the devs want Dark Knight GCD rotation to be as boring as ARR Paladin for the rest of the games lifespan for some unknown reason, even though people still complain about ARR Paladin GCD Rotation being boring...

So old content is an issue because it's boring if you're gimped via level sync or trying to actually progress through the story at your own pace from scratch...

And even IF level sync was re-worked to no longer gimp players syncing down, new players would just be justified to buy progression skip items just to actually have fun with job they have selected to main, which is different discussion altogether.

If we fix the boring GCD issue for ALL jobs and classes that A Realm Reborn content has for both new and free trial players and fix the level sync gimping players syncing down issue, players would probably be less likely(albeit not by much because A Realm Reborn story is pretty boring and doesn't pick up the pace until starting Heavensward prologue at EXACLTY level 50) to buy progression skip items for their main to steam but in exchange be more including them to skip MOST of the leveling for other jobs that require the exact same amount of grinding that just so happen to pique their interest.

At least that's what I would do if I was an MMORPG developer that wanted to keep player retention that also wanted players to go play other games if they wanted to take a break form said MMORPG, and it is risky but it MIGHT pay off in the long term, just look at FF11 which is surprising how that game's servers are still functioning and running, which also has fan made Private servers of how the game was before the nerfs, something that FF14 doesn't even have.

Why not have DRK have more branching combos, or even fluid ones like monk, have some fun with that and choose which GCD you use for your 3 hit based on what you need at the time (MP, blood, damage, other ressource for ogcds)

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Why not have DRK have more branching combos, or even fluid ones like monk, have some fun with that and choose which GCD you use for your 3 hit based on what you need at the time (MP, blood, damage, other ressource for ogcds)

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Because it will never amount to anything. War mains will cry if their 123 medic tank does even 1% less damage than the selfish burst focussed tank with no utility and the least sustain. Tanks can not be fun and rewarding to play as long as we're competing with the streamer tank of choice.

Boy the Warrior hate is almost as mindless as the state of healing at this point. Either make fun of them because they deserve it or make fun of them because they have a good patch after a few not so fun patches.

How about instead we indeed get the other tanks up to snuff. Dark Knight very much could do with more self sustain, all the magical defensives being converted into full defensives because Dark Knight doesn't need to be the "magic defense" tank in a game where every tank can mitigate all damage. Lean more into their identity of leaning into MP to go ham with offense and defense, and get some more life leech as they drain the blood of their enemies. While were at it, give Dark Knight some extra GCD combos. I remember when they had more than one combo chain and it was a nice time.

Advocating for constant nerfs to something just because it's popular to hate on it is just asking for an argument where it isn't needed. Buff the others up so everyone can be happy enjoying good tanks. Wouldn't that be some good food for thought, because I would love for the job design to be better balanced overall so everyone can have a good time with their job and not feel sad.

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Originally Posted by MikoRemi

Boy the Warrior hate is almost as mindless as the state of healing at this point. Either make fun of them because they deserve it or make fun of them because they have a good patch after a few not so fun patches.

How about instead we indeed get the other tanks up to snuff. Dark Knight very much could do with more self sustain, all the magical defensives being converted into full defensives because Dark Knight doesn't need to be the "magic defense" tank in a game where every tank can mitigate all damage. Lean more into their identity of leaning into MP to go ham with offense and defense, and get some more life leech as they drain the blood of their enemies. While were at it, give Dark Knight some extra GCD combos. I remember when they had more than one combo chain and it was a nice time.

Advocating for constant nerfs to something just because it's popular to hate on it is just asking for an argument where it isn't needed. Buff the others up so everyone can be happy enjoying good tanks. Wouldn't that be some good food for thought, because I would love for the job design to be better balanced overall so everyone can have a good time with their job and not feel sad.

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Because I would rather have NO tanks have the amount of party healing War does, not even War. It's completely unnecessary when we have healers as an actual role. Even it's self-sustain could be toned down a be toned down a bit, to about PLD's level without clemency.

Dark Knight does not desperately need the increased self-sustain people like to say it does. That, and magic defense is one of the few things DRK can say it's better at than the other tanks thanks to Dark Mind, I'd like to not lose that. They can give us a better offensive kit that isn't essentially WAR with extra oGCD's to burst with. IF we get that added self-sustain in the process then I'm not going to complain (especially if we by some miracle get old Abyssal Drain back).

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Why not have DRK have more branching combos, or even fluid ones like monk, have some fun with that and choose which GCD you use for your 3 hit based on what you need at the time (MP, blood, damage, other ressource for ogcds)

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Would be interesting to see how it works, We have syphon strike as our slotted 2 which is for MP, Souleater could be used for Gauge. Mayhaps Power Slash (or new ability, w/e) could be for more MP, so that we have two choices that both matter and are needed in our kit. Not sure if we'd need a third..but personally I wouldn't mind needing to maintain a DoT or a damage buff on the side.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

Would be interesting to see how it works, We have syphon strike as our slotted 2 which is for MP, Souleater could be used for Gauge. Mayhaps Power Slash (or new ability, w/e) could be for more MP, so that we have two choices that both matter and are needed in our kit. Not sure if we'd need a third..but personally I wouldn't mind needing to maintain a DoT or a damage buff on the side.

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Could have one that spends Darkside so you'd use that one to avoid overcapping when your MP and DS are high

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Could have one that spends Darkside so you'd use that one to avoid overcapping when your MP and DS are high

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It's been mentioned in another thread that we could use Darkside as a resource, yeah. I personally am fond of the idea of giving something akin to Death Strike on World of Warcraft for us to spend Darkside on. (instead of pooled damage we've taken, though, the damage dealt and potency of healing would depend on the amount of Darkside consumed to use it). That would give us some form of sustain on demand if we make it its own standalone GCD.

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Originally Posted by MikoRemi

Boy the Warrior hate is almost as mindless as the state of healing at this point. Either make fun of them because they deserve it or make fun of them because they have a good patch after a few not so fun patches.

How about instead we indeed get the other tanks up to snuff. Dark Knight very much could do with more self sustain, all the magical defensives being converted into full defensives because Dark Knight doesn't need to be the "magic defense" tank in a game where every tank can mitigate all damage. Lean more into their identity of leaning into MP to go ham with offense and defense, and get some more life leech as they drain the blood of their enemies. While were at it, give Dark Knight some extra GCD combos. I remember when they had more than one combo chain and it was a nice time.

Advocating for constant nerfs to something just because it's popular to hate on it is just asking for an argument where it isn't needed. Buff the others up so everyone can be happy enjoying good tanks. Wouldn't that be some good food for thought, because I would love for the job design to be better balanced overall so everyone can have a good time with their job and not feel sad.

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Warrior should not be setting a new standard with the ridiculous gamebreaking amount of sustain that they have. We have healers for a reason.
The tank imbalance is mostly just War being so far ahead of the others. It was balanced when War had downsides in the form of slightly lower dps to counterbalance the sustain and utility. But yall didn't want balance.