Power-leveling is absolutely BROKEN

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Originally Posted by Treach

What they should do to fix this problem is add a fatigue like system where once you earn a certain amount of experience you gain less and less experience per level of fatigue up to a 100% reduced rate, and this system could reset every 24 hours or even longer to prevent people from out leveling each other so no one gets ahead and everyone can party together, laugh together and just enjoy the game to it's fullest.




LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULLLLLLZZZZZZZZ

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I have to admit that I chuckled when I read this. Even though I am personally opposed to the current power-leveling exploit, an honorable combatant acknowledges when an opponent delivers a master stroke.

Touché, pussycat ... touché.

Powerleveling is indeed broken... you have to oust/invite a high level player to do it. They should allow the person to stay in the party the whole time so they can at least spirit bind in the process.

I hope the dev team revisits this for ver 2.0 make makes appropriate changes to quell this issue.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

I hope the dev team revisits this for ver 2.0 make makes appropriate changes to quell this issue.

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I agree.. as I said before:

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Powerleveling is indeed broken... you have to oust/invite a high level player to do it. They should allow the person to stay in the party the whole time so they can at least spirit bind in the process.

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This should be changed for 2.0. Please SE me and Chief are counting on you!

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Well its because I'm betting most of the anti-plvling crowd that states they dont want to do it really mean they cant find anyone to PL them, and then they dont want anyone to be able to PL so that they are forced to seek out party members. I have yet to find anyone in game that would turn down plvling.

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This could not be farther from the truth. I'm against PL because it weakens the community in so many ways it's not even funny.

-New players cannot find people to group with.
-Low to mid range gear is difficult to buy/sell.
-Players who PL their jobs have to start learning their job late in the game.
-SE is in no way prepared to accomodate players who have maxed DoW/DoM with sufficient content to hold their interest.

As well, I do know at least myself, Tempest Reve and Funshi Dai were all highly opposed to PL.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

This could not be farther from the truth. I'm against PL because it weakens the community in so many ways it's not even funny.

-New players cannot find people to group with.
-Low to mid range gear is difficult to buy/sell.
-Players who PL their jobs have to start learning their job late in the game.
-SE is in no way prepared to accomodate players who have maxed DoW/DoM with sufficient content to hold their interest.

As well, I do know at least myself, Tempest Reve and Funshi Dai were all highly opposed to PL.

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I agree. I came back to FFXIV a couple weeks ago and I have encountered an almost total lack of low and mid level pt interest. New people are going to get turned off to XIV if this remains, as I am beginning to be.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Well its because I'm betting most of the anti-plvling crowd that states they dont want to do it really mean they cant find anyone to PL them, and then they dont want anyone to be able to PL so that they are forced to seek out party members. I have yet to find anyone in game that would turn down plvling.

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yep, i am against powerleveling and have been since it came out. i refuse to do it for others and will not waste my time doing so.

you nailed the reason i hate it too. i have nobody that will powerlevel me. i need to get every class to rank 51 since i am all 50's. oh wait.....there's no r51?..... i guess your argument is absolutely wrong.... i'm sorry sir, but you are incorrect.

i have many reasons i am against powerleveling and not a single one of them is because i can't get anyone to level me.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Well its because I'm betting most of the anti-plvling crowd that states they dont want to do it really mean they cant find anyone to PL them, and then they dont want anyone to be able to PL so that they are forced to seek out party members. I have yet to find anyone in game that would turn down plvling.

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Yes, that's the reason perfectly said. It's almost as if people legitimately doesn't like powerleveling, I mean that would be silly for a human being to have likes and dislikes. You're right, the only reason people are against PL is not because it ruins low and mid level partying, especially with a lower playerbase and it not only churns out people who know not a damn thing about mechanics beyond standing in one spot or moving to another spot and standing and not to mention it not only teaches you nothing about certain monsters...it's because they can't get powerleveled themselves.

You're absolutely right.

hmmm don't forget your /sarcasm button...especially when you start to write longer than 3 lines
It's hard to communicate through texting

Hey I just call it like I see it, im sure there are a few that legitimately dont like power leveling but Im willing to bet that 90% of the time it is because it leaves less people around for them to party with, thus giving them less of a chance to xp. Thus its all about them and them wanting to force their playstyle on others to benifit them. I guess its a good thing Yoshi doesn't share the same feelings. So QQ all you want, doesn't seem to be doing anything.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Hey I just call it like I see it, im sure there are a few that legitimately dont like power leveling but Im willing to bet that 90% of the time it is because it leaves less people around for them to party with, thus giving them less of a chance to xp. Thus its all about them and them wanting to force their playstyle on others to benifit them. I guess its a good thing Yoshi doesn't share the same feelings. So QQ all you want, doesn't seem to be doing anything.

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It's not about people who refuse PL wanting other people not to PL. It's about the disparity of players between the levels 1-40. Go on your server and do a player search for all DOW/DoM 1-39 and report how many people are listed. and how many are within ~10 levels of each other.

You won't find many.

This is the issue at hand here. If any new player joins or returns, they will be isolated to almost exclusively solo level grind, UNLESS they pick up a PL.

So this begs the question, what's the point of lv 1-39? PL allows you to skip it. While the mechanic may stay for ver 1.x but come ver 2.0 this problem will become exponential.

So call it like you see it, but maybe you should open your eyes and take another look.

Get Rid of PL!

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

It's not about people who refuse PL wanting other people not to PL. It's about the disparity of players between the levels 1-40. Go on your server and do a player search for all DOW/DoM 1-39 and report how many people are listed. and how many are within ~10 levels of each other.

You won't find many.

This is the issue at hand here. If any new player joins or returns, they will be isolated to almost exclusively solo level grind, UNLESS they pick up a PL.

So this begs the question, what's the point of lv 1-39? PL allows you to skip it. While the mechanic may stay for ver 1.x but come ver 2.0 this problem will become exponential.

So call it like you see it, but maybe you should open your eyes and take another look.

Get Rid of PL!

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Sounds like a population issue to me and not a PL issue. As for 2.0 leveling at that point might actually be fun (and with the influx of the PS3 users I doubt finding a party will be an issue), right now its just a necessary evil.

So open your eyes, whats the real issue here.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Hey I just call it like I see it, im sure there are a few that legitimately dont like power leveling but Im willing to bet that 90% of the time it is because it leaves less people around for them to party with, thus giving them less of a chance to xp. Thus its all about them and them wanting to force their playstyle on others to benifit them. I guess its a good thing Yoshi doesn't share the same feelings. So QQ all you want, doesn't seem to be doing anything.

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No Krausus, I'm worried for the community which also happens to consist of the same group of people that may or may not play alongside us given that they are left with little choice in some cases to either resort to PL, or stay behind the curve. It's almost a 'join us, or die' mentality. That which I eventually succumbed to after many days of refusing to be powerleveled. It may sound corny, but I felt like the biggest hypocrite - though I was sick and tired of shouting in Ul'dah for days to no avail.

Of course, people were online to build a proper EXP party, but guess where I found them? Lined up at the PL camp, almost everyone AFK.

And it's true - grinding does teach you how to play your job. I can recall a handful of times where I actually got a classic party together, and people would either admit they didn't know how to play their job, or their relative inexperience would shine like the sun.

How are people debating that PL is not an issue? That just doesn't make any sense...

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Originally Posted by Xoo

No Krausus, I'm worried for the community which also happens to consist of the same group of people that may or may not play alongside us given that they are left with little choice in some cases to either resort to PL, or stay behind the curve. It's almost a 'join us, or die' mentality. That which I eventually succumbed to after many days of refusing to be powerleveled. It may sound corny, but I felt like the biggest hypocrite - though I was sick and tired of shouting in Ul'dah for days to no avail.

Of course, people were online to build a proper EXP party, but guess where I found them? Lined up at the PL camp, almost everyone AFK.

And it's true - grinding does teach you how to play your job. I can recall a handful of times where I actually got a classic party together, and people would either admit they didn't know how to play their job, or their relative inexperience would shine like the sun.

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I think if you cant figure out how to play any job in this game from 40-50 then there is a major user error, none of the classes are difficult to play so I really wouldn't use that as ammo for the discussion. Before Plvling people only partied in the fastest most efficient leve parties. You would rarely if ever see any grind party. After PL came along is when grinding became an option, I see grind parties form up all the time now while hanging in Uldah, sure there is still PL parties that go on but most of that is done in LS.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Sounds like a population issue to me and not a PL issue. As for 2.0 leveling at that point might actually be fun (and with the influx of the PS3 users I doubt finding a party will be an issue), right now its just a necessary evil.

So open your eyes, whats the real issue here.

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Before 1.19:
Plenty of people in all ranges for every battle class.

Now:
90% of server population either has all jobs 50 or every job they want 50. New players have the option to get PL'd by a friend or solo, legitimate parties dwindle.

Perspective:
When I made this thread, my highest battle class was 29. At the beginning of last month I got my last battle class to 50. (No, I was not PL'ed.)

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Originally Posted by Issac

Before 1.19:
Plenty of people in all ranges for every battle class.

Now:
90% of server population either has all jobs 50 or every job they want 50. New players have the option to get PL'd by a friend or solo, legitimate parties dwindle.

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That is an unfortunate side effect of every MMO in existance, this game has been out for over a year now, new players will always have issue finding a party. FFXIV will have one thing that will help, that most MMOs dont and that is a relaunch that includes a console version thus an influx of new players.

I would agree with the "PL is an issue" claim if leveling was fun, and you didnt need to level multiple classes to be viable. The only thing that turned me and many others away from FFXI was the horrendous level grind and forced grouping to do it. I guarantee that will turn more people away from a game than the ability for your friends to power level you through the most boring part of the game.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

That is an unfortunate side effect of every MMO in existance, this game has been out for over a year now, new players will always have issue finding a party. FFXIV will have one thing that will help, that most MMOs dont and that is a relaunch that includes a console version thus an influx of new players.

I would agree with the "PL is an issue" claim if leveling was fun, and you didnt need to level multiple classes to be viable. The only thing that turned me and many others away from FFXI was the horrendous level grind and forced grouping to do it. I guarantee that will turn more people away from a game than the ability for your friends to power level you through the most boring part of the game.

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You have a very special and unique view of what makes a MMO fun and rewarding. Stay classy.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

I think if you cant figure out how to play any job in this game from 40-50 then there is a major user error, none of the classes are difficult to play so I really wouldn't use that as ammo for the discussion. Before Plvling people only partied in the fastest most efficient leve parties. You would rarely if ever see any grind party. After PL came along is when grinding became an option, I see grind parties form up all the time now while hanging in Uldah, sure there is still PL parties that go on but most of that is done in LS.

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I don't know what MMOs you played, but the MMOs I've played you can't learn anything about a job, let alone your class/jobs standing in one spot while someone else does all the work for you.

No matter how easy a game may be, it's human nature to learn by doing.

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Originally Posted by Issac

You have a very special and unique view of what makes a MMO fun and rewarding. Stay classy.

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I dont find grinding for hours/days/months on end on the same content for 7 classes fun or rewarding

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Originally Posted by Krausus

I dont find grinding for hours/days/months on end on the same content for 7 classes fun or rewarding

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Funny, considering every MMO out today you grind on the same reskinned content.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I don't know what MMOs you played, but the MMOs I've played you can't learn anything about a job, let alone your class/jobs standing in one spot while someone else does all the work for you.

No matter how easy a game may be, it's human nature to learn by doing.

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I play FFXIV where you can learn to play a class in a very short amount of time. 40-50 is more then enough time to learn to play a class where you dont usually Plvl. I dunno maybe I'm the exception that it doesn't take me months to learn how to play a class.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Funny, considering every MMO out today you grind on the same reskinned content.

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Which is one of the biggest issues in MMOs to date, which is why the trend in every MMO is to make leveling faster and easier.

It takes roughly 4 days in WoW to go 1-50. (12 hours / day). I just did it on a new account. They have millions of players. XIV has a few thousand. SE wants more players. We want more players. Less focus on grind and more focus on getting your gear will appeal to a lot of people.

If it doesn't appeal to you, you have a choice to not play the game. Make your suggestions. Stop bickering and let the dev's decide how they will take these suggestions. If they don't take yours and your so upset. Stop paying for the game.

If your still paying for the game your accepting what it is, even if just a little bit.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

I play FFXIV where you can learn to play a class in a very short amount of time. 40-50 is more then enough time to learn to play a class where you dont usually Plvl. I dunno maybe I'm the exception that it doesn't take me months to learn how to play a class.

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Takes about 30-45 minutes at max level. You know, you press those skills when they light up on your screen!

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Originally Posted by Icehunter

It takes roughly 4 days in WoW to go 1-50. (12 hours / day). I just did it on a new account. They have millions of players. XIV has a few thousand. SE wants more players. We want more players. Less focus on grind and more focus on getting your gear will appeal to a lot of people.

If it doesn't appeal to you, you have a choice to not play the game. Make your suggestions. Stop bickering and let the dev's decide how they will take these suggestions. If they don't take yours and your so upset. Stop paying for the game.

If your still paying for the game your accepting what it is, even if just a little bit.

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4 days to hit level 50 (12 hours / day)... 4 days playing 12 hours a day?( I think you meant 12 hours total. ) That seems a bit long to me... I know I leveled from 1 - 80 in about 3 days on my Priest back in Wotlk. (With the exp gear though... grab all dungeon quests - queue up and get instant party :D!) But I was playing long hours every day.

People that want a long grind are going to find themselves S.O.L until the level cap is 75+. And it's really unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

I think if you cant figure out how to play any job in this game from 40-50 then there is a major user error, none of the classes are difficult to play so I really wouldn't use that as ammo for the discussion. Before Plvling people only partied in the fastest most efficient leve parties. You would rarely if ever see any grind party. After PL came along is when grinding became an option, I see grind parties form up all the time now while hanging in Uldah, sure there is still PL parties that go on but most of that is done in LS.

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I remember those god-awful leve parties. Of course, they weren't really a static method of EXP until the 40's, where people typically would grind before then.

Do you realize how quickly and effortlessly you can get from 40-50 these days? If you're in the right group, people at higher levels carry you there in literally a few hours, further accentuating the game's ease and the lack of necessity in knowing what to do and when.

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Originally Posted by RemVye

Takes about 30-45 minutes at max level. You know, you press those skills when they light up on your screen!



4 days to hit level 50 (12 hours / day)... 4 days playing 12 hours a day?( I think you meant 12 hours total. ) That seems a bit long to me... I know I leveled from 1 - 80 in about 3 days on my Priest back in Wotlk. (With the exp gear though... grab all dungeon quests - queue up and get instant party :D!) But I was playing long hours every day.

People that want a long grind are going to find themselves S.O.L until the level cap is 75+. And it's really unnecessary.

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I took my time, but it illustrates a very important point. I hate WoW. Let's get that over with. I don't hate the mechanics, I hate the graphics.

I love FFXI and XIV, but the mechanics of both need something more.

WoW is the most successful MMO. So if SE wants some of that PIE they will have to utilize some aspects from other MMO's and combine those into a great melting pot.

They have a little bit of every one of them in XIV right now at least. Some people are calling for a replica of XI with updated graphics. Go play something else. Every MMO has to be updated and/or different. Just because it's labled FF doesn't mean it has to be FFXI 2.0.

If FFXI worked so well why didn't they have 10mil + people, or like GW 5mil+ active players. It was a niche market that they had. XIV needs to get OUT of that niche and cater to many more styles of players.

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Originally Posted by Icehunter

I took my time, but it illustrates a very important point. I hate WoW. Let's get that over with. I don't hate the mechanics, I hate the graphics.

I love FFXI and XIV, but the mechanics of both need something more.

WoW is the most successful MMO. So if SE wants some of that PIE they will have to utilize some aspects from other MMO's and combine those into a great melting pot.

They have a little bit of every one of them in XIV right now at least. Some people are calling for a replica of XI with updated graphics. Go play something else. Every MMO has to be updated and/or different. Just because it's labled FF doesn't mean it has to be FFXI 2.0.

If FFXI worked so well why didn't they have 10mil + people, or like GW 5mil+ active players. It was a niche market that they had. XIV needs to get OUT of that niche and cater to many more styles of players.

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or the people consistently telling others to go play other games could always just go play another one themselves. yes, xiv wants to get more players than what xi had, but it does not have to go to the other extreme to get there.

There is a major problem with being PL'ed, I'm sure like most player you get pissed off if some players is not doing their JOb right, Expecially in endgame situations. When your being PL'ed all the time you don't use your skills all the time... or perfect how to play your character.

And in XIV there are so many more options to improve your character. There are also tons of people out there that or gearists, 'subjobists', and they excpect you to for sure know how to play your character the right way. I read the comments how you personally can figure out how to "BE THE BEST" at your job in a matter of minute, but for most people playing there is a learning curve to some degree. BEsides why even play the game if all you want to do is blow right through the lvls. YOu get to endgame stuff quicker... Big Effing WHOOOP... now you will lather, rinse, repeat on a daily basis for the next 2 years+ and/or hope that the dev's come up with more content for you to speed through again.

What sends a bigger message? Thousands of people complaining like children in a thread or thousands people that stop paying for a game. If a large chunk of the last few thousands of players of this game; quit, you can bet SE would listen more. I don't need to play another game because this game offers everything I need at the moment.

When the day comes that it offers less than I need; and one day it will happen either via it's age or my own desires than I'll quit. The biggest statement is not what one does with their words but with their actions. Everyone can talk about how bad something is but unless you do something about it; it really doesn't mean jack squat.

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Originally Posted by Icehunter

What sends a bigger message? Thousands of people complaining like children in a thread or thousands people that stop paying for a game. If a large chunk of the last few thousands of players of this game; quit, you can bet SE would listen more. I don't need to play another game because this game offers everything I need at the moment.

When the day comes that it offers less than I need; and one day it will happen either via it's age or my own desires than I'll quit. The biggest statement is not what one does with their words but with their actions. Everyone can talk about how bad something is but unless you do something about it; it really doesn't mean jack squat.

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that is completely irrelevant and you know it. since when do you quit anything because there is one thing about it you dislike? a normal person takes the good with the bad. the bad in this case is powerleveling, but the game overall is decent. these forums were put in place for people to give feedback and that's what they are doing. whether you like someone's opinion or not it is irrelevant because you come in here with the attitude they should either think exactly like you or quit.

there will never be another person on the face of this earth that will agree with you 100% on each and every subject. in fact i can promise you there has never been a game that has been 100% the way you like it. there is always something someone dislikes about a game. they have just as much right to state they do not like something as you do saying you do like it.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

I dont find grinding for hours/days/months on end on the same content for 7 classes fun or rewarding

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Yet having all classes at 50 and repeating the same 2 boss fights over and over is rewarding to you?

Why do you play? lol

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Originally Posted by Ramis

There is a major problem with being PL'ed, I'm sure like most player you get pissed off if some players is not doing their JOb right, Expecially in endgame situations. When your being PL'ed all the time you don't use your skills all the time... or perfect how to play your character.

And in XIV there are so many more options to improve your character. There are also tons of people out there that or gearists, 'subjobists', and they excpect you to for sure know how to play your character the right way. I read the comments how you personally can figure out how to "BE THE BEST" at your job in a matter of minute, but for most people playing there is a learning curve to some degree. BEsides why even play the game if all you want to do is blow right through the lvls. YOu get to endgame stuff quicker... Big Effing WHOOOP... now you will lather, rinse, repeat on a daily basis for the next 2 years+ and/or hope that the dev's come up with more content for you to speed through again.

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I would rather lather, rinse, repeat endgame content than leveling. Next patch they are adding 2 new dungeons, patch after that another primal and hamlets at the least. Why would I want to spend all my time killing the same mobs to gain another level (which is just climbing your way to the end game content). You talk about all you have to do at 50 is the endgame over and over. All you are doing is the level grind over and over at least endgame has people and rewards.

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Originally Posted by Tempast

Yet having all classes at 50 and repeating the same 2 boss fights over and over is rewarding to you?

Why do you play? lol

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more rewarding than level grinding the same mobs over and over. I play for many reasons and have been doing it with no breaks since beta.

And that maybe rewarding for you and that is good. And I know there are alot of people who feel that same why. But there are also alot of people like me who feel the grinding through the lvls and learning the whole time is fun and rewarding. Sure i was to do the endgame stuff and get the cool gear, but on this game the reworkings will be complete in 2013, and other than the 2-4 dungeons/raids they are adding you are going to be waiting for more.

Thats one of the reasons WoW got so boring for me.. or Rift I would do the same 2-4 raids/dungeons over and over. They are super fun at 1st but after 20 times its like why am i still paying for this. So as i keep lvling they mobs change slightly, the area changes a little, and i can enjoy itand then move on. I guess it makes me feel like i am getting my moneys worth.
(Just my opinion)

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Originally Posted by Icehunter

It takes roughly 4 days in WoW to go 1-50. (12 hours / day). I just did it on a new account. They have millions of players. XIV has a few thousand. SE wants more players. We want more players. Less focus on grind and more focus on getting your gear will appeal to a lot of people.

If it doesn't appeal to you, you have a choice to not play the game. Make your suggestions. Stop bickering and let the dev's decide how they will take these suggestions. If they don't take yours and your so upset. Stop paying for the game.

If your still paying for the game your accepting what it is, even if just a little bit.

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For what it's worth, the WoW where leveling that fast is mainstream has been tanking at a rate of two million subs every three quarters. In the days where WoW got the vast majority of its subs (vanilla got 5 million in a day when mmo's were not mainstream, burning crusade expanded on vanilla and got another 6 million for a total of 11 million, wrath of the lich king changed the game into what you describe and stagnated, gaining only 1 million, and Cataclysm, the epitome of linearity and depthlessness, has lost 2 million so far), leveling was much less linear and took a great deal more time to explore the world in search of quests and the like.

Even still, there has never been a period of WoW where you could simply have someone power level you to nearly level cap. That's broken and it's not fun, and mark my words-- it will go away before 2.0. You're daft if you think new players coming in at 2.0 are going to want to stick around when they find out this game is so shallow that the leveling method of choice is actually to have someone else play the game while you sit around and do nothing.i

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Originally Posted by Ramis

And that maybe rewarding for you and that is good. And I know there are alot of people who feel that same why. But there are also alot of people like me who feel the grinding through the lvls and learning the whole time is fun and rewarding. Sure i was to do the endgame stuff and get the cool gear, but on this game the reworkings will be complete in 2013, and other than the 2-4 dungeons/raids they are adding you are going to be waiting for more.

Thats one of the reasons WoW got so boring for me.. or Rift I would do the same 2-4 raids/dungeons over and over. They are super fun at 1st but after 20 times its like why am i still paying for this. So as i keep lvling they mobs change slightly, the area changes a little, and i can enjoy itand then move on. I guess it makes me feel like i am getting my moneys worth.
(Just my opinion)

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And I certainly respect that, I guess if you look at it they are the same thing, grinding the level portion of the game or end game, still grinding either way.

the devs have looked into this matter and would like you to know that PL is working as intended.