Dear Healers who don't DPS

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Originally Posted by Destatiredux

I feel like much of the fuel behind this discussion has to do with these questions and how they're dealt with by the community. See, a good tank will use cooldowns. However if they don't, you don't see them being ridiculed on the forums to the extent you see for healers, nor do you see them being kicked from casual or DF parties. The party adjusts. If a dps gets hit by avoidable things, the same situation applies. You're rarely gonna see a dps being kicked or harassed in a party for standing in the bad- at worst the healer will simply leave the dps on the floor and continue to do what they will. However the backlash for a healer not dpsing is so much worse lately than either of those situations, where healers will be literally told, in both forums and parties, "If you don't dps you're a trash healer. You're going to get kicked if you don't dps. If you want to just heal, go unsub and find another game." This is why the Devs don't want people expecting dps from healers- not because they want healers to be lazy or to keep people from encouraging the best possible play from healers willing to listen, but to stop people who will take their views on it and use them to enforce what is basically a meritocracy on their own parties. These attitudes are why many who are viewed as "non dps" advocates are, I feel, actually aiming for a middle ground, like myself and Ghishlain.

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I feel like you're woefully mistaken if you think people tolerate tanks that don't use cooldowns, or DPS that decide to eat every AOE the boss throws at them.

While this is purely anecdotal, I have seen far more instances of people calling out tanks for poor cooldown usage, or for DPS just eating AOEs than I have ever seen when it comes to healer DPS--be it excess or lack there of. Never have I see anyone call any healer "trash" for not DPSing. They may be grumbling on the other side of the their screen about it, but they certainly don't harass the idle healer to the extent people on here like to make it out to be.

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Originally Posted by Destatiredux

Actually, yes. I've never, not once, seen a tank get kicked for not using cool downs or tank stance in a DF, nor a dps get kicked for standing in all the things. Not once in all the years I've played this game. But I have experienced and seen healers get kicked for not dpsing, or dpsing enough. I agree none of it is defendable, but since people tolerate the rest to a much larger extent than a healer lacking dps, I find it to be an incredible double standard by the community if that's the comparable measure being used in this instance.

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See above. If I end up in a duty with a tank that does mass pulls and refuses to use any sort of mitigation for it, I do not hesitate to call them out on it. If they continue, I refuse to deal with it. I'm expected to do my job (heal), so I expect them to do theirs (hold aggro and mitigate). Same thing goes for DPS.

The only times I have seen healers kicked from duties is when they're just being a jerk about things. Be it harassing other players, or refusing to fulfill any part of their role as a healer. Never have they been kicked for 0 healer DPS.

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Originally Posted by Destatiredux

since people tolerate the rest to a much larger extent than a healer lacking dps, I find it to be an incredible double standard by the community if that's the comparable measure being used in this instance.

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I believe that's your experience, even though it's far from mine. However, I don't think you'll find anyone here defending this double standard you're experiencing.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

While this is purely anecdotal, I have seen far more instances of people calling out tanks for poor cooldown usage, or for DPS just eating AOEs than I have ever seen when it comes to healer DPS--be it excess or lack there of. Never have I see anyone call any healer "trash" for not DPSing. They may be grumbling on the other side of the their screen about it, but they certainly don't harass the idle healer to the extent people on here like to make it out to be.

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This is my experience as well.

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

PS: Please don't stand in stupid. We like extra mana for emergency heals. Cool.

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Translation: "Avoid things to make my job easier but don't dare ask me to make the run faster by DPSing."

There's a significant difference between a tank going from say, 1k DPS to 1.2k compared to a healer going from 0 to 3k. And if you Holy spam, 3k can easily be an understatement. Like, Taika, I will absolutely call out a tank doing next to nothing. I've had those tanks before as Hyomin can attest to when we did Shinryu. My experiences have also been the same as hers.

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Originally Posted by Taika

I believe that's your experience, even though it's far from mine. However, I don't think you'll find anyone here defending this double standard you're experiencing.


This is my experience as well.

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Yes, I believe our experiences have been vastly different. This might also be why this discussion is always so polarizing, huh?

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Originally Posted by Destatiredux

Yes, I believe our experiences have been vastly different. This might also be why this discussion is always so polarizing, huh?

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Well sure, if you're arguing against your personal in game experiences instead of reading and replying to what people in this discussion here are saying...

Edit: In other words, you may feel there's a double standard in game, but since no one here is arguing that more should be expected from healers than tanks or DDs, there's no point in you arguing against that particular point of view here.

I'll chirp up if a tank hasn't used any cooldowns on a big pull as it can make things pretty unpleasant. Would I vote kick them? No.

About the only thing that'd get me hovering over the kick button is a tank that insists on pulling big pulls and failing to at least keep agro on it all.

The only kicks I can think of have been people that are either outright being abusive or just afking more than could be considered polite or acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Destatiredux

Actually, yes. I've never, not once, seen a tank get kicked for not using cool downs or tank stance in a DF, nor a dps get kicked for standing in all the things. Not once in all the years I've played this game. But I have experienced and seen healers get kicked for not dpsing, or dpsing enough. I agree none of it is defendable, but since people tolerate the rest to a much larger extent than a healer lacking dps, I find it to be an incredible double standard by the community if that's the comparable measure being used in this instance.

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I have, because they were either losing aggro and/or dying, and refused to do anything about it.

"Tanks" that constantly sit in DPS stance tend to piss me off, but if they hold mobs and live long enough to be healed I don't tend to make a fuss. But if doing it leads to failure? Fix it or GTFO.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Translation: "Avoid things to make my job easier but don't dare ask me to make the run faster by DPSing."

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You're not speaking my language then.

I'd be more concerned with the tank holding the aggro, the healer keeping us alive and the DPS doing what DPS does best. Sure a tank and healer DPS would be amazing, but it all begins with the tank and the healer and how confident they are in their own abilities. You can't expect every single tank and healer to "play on your level" because you're being impatient. You don't know their train of thoughts or processes of what they do - you think putting them on blast because they aren't speed running things for you is going to make things better or faster?

This is why everything I run I do it with my FC - so I don't have to put up with snotty attitudes like that.

I bet if they added another dps slot to party where it was 3 instead of 2 with same difficulty you still complain about healers not doing dps. See more healer's focused on dps than healing and letting the tank die before they can heal them. Should be healing first dps second.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

I bet if they added another dps slot to party where it was 3 instead of 2 with same difficulty you still complain about healers not doing dps. See more healer's focused on dps than healing and letting the tank die before they can heal them. Should be healing first dps second.

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Please stop making empty strawman arguments. No one here is arguing that (1) healers should DPS to cover for other, slacking party members, or that (2) healing shouldn't be healers' first priority before DPS.

What people are asking is that when a healer has nothing else to do (everyone is safe, they have plenty of MP and are familiar with the content), they should contribute with DPS instead of doing nothing or doing unnecessary overhealing.

And also, once again, no one is asking healers to push some super amazing DPS numbers - it is enough to do some DPS (when they have nothing else to do and are familiar with their job and the content they're doing!).