More Horizontal Progression please

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Funny, because 1.0 was just that and it failed. Hard.

This game was designed for the western market.

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Hmm.... 1.0 had nothing but leves.

1.x - 1.23 which Yoshida turned the game into, which had horizontal progression, did really well especially at the end. I remember all my friends came to play 1.23 and loved it..posting all over FB/tumblr/twitter constantly..then 2.0 came out and they all quit after a couple weeks lol.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

Hmm.... 1.0 had nothing but leves.

1.x - 1.23 which Yoshida turned the game into, which had horizontal progression, did really well especially at the end. I remember all my friends came to play 1.23 and loved it..posting all over FB/tumblr/twitter constantly..then 2.0 came out and they all quit after a couple weeks lol.

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If it was so great, then why did it get scrapped?

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Last game that tried to go the "hardcore" route, was WildStar. And we all saw where that went.

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Wildstar, the "WoW" clone that was like WoW but wanted to be more hardcore. Of course it was fail, they were trying to take a game based off a casual wide audience and make it not casual.

When I say "new" concepts. I mean a game or MMO that we haven't seen in the past 10 years. Like old Sandbox MMOs, not reskinned WoW-clones like Wildstar.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

If it was so great, then why did it get scrapped?

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It didn't do well fast enough. Honestly. Honor, dignity and company names were at stake. That is probably one reason they fired everyone. They didn't keep anyone because that is their culture.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

If it was so great, then why did it get scrapped?

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It didn't. The entire time we were told that 2.0 would be a new and improved upon 1.23.

1.0 and Tanaka's thing got scrapped...Yoshida took over in Jan 2011 fully, and started a different direction with the game. We had this discussion before...it was either in this thread or another. ^.^ 1.x did so well they were able to start charging subs again...hence how legacy was born.

So please stop trying to argue saying 1.x failed, 1.0 failed yes, which is why Tanaka was removed..once Yoshida took over, it instantly started improving and bringing new players everyday. Big difference lol.

If 1.x failed..none of you would be here now playing 2.0...haha. Talking about 3 different games.

So once more, we have:
1.0 - Tanaka's team
1.x - Yoshida (which had horizontal progression and subs)
and 2.0 - Yoshida

Only one failed. :D

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

It didn't do well fast enough. Honestly. Honor, dignity and company names were at stake. That is probably one reason they fired everyone. They didn't keep anyone because that is their culture.

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He is confusing 1.0 with 1.x lol to try to say that horizontal progression fails. I am trying to explain to him that 1.x Yoshida made had horizontal progression with a subscription which did really well. 1.0 had no content except for leves >.> See what I am saying? Maybe one person on here can understand lol

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Wildstar, the "WoW" clone that was like WoW but wanted to be more hardcore. Of course it was fail, they were trying to take a game based off a casual wide audience and make it not casual.

When I say "new" concepts. I mean a game or MMO that we haven't seen in the past 10 years. Like old Sandbox MMOs, not reskinned WoW-clones like Wildstar.



It didn't do well fast enough. Honestly. Honor, dignity and company names were at stake. That is probably one reason they fired everyone. They didn't keep anyone because that is their culture.

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Sandbox games aren't new concepts either though.

Seriously. Go show me one of the dozens or so that have shown up on Kickstarter that are actually being worked on with some sort of progress.

Even EQ Next has mostly fallen off the radar, and since the studio change and new focus, I doubt it'll be what it's being purported to be as well.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Sandbox games aren't new concepts either though.

Seriously. Go show me one of the dozens or so that have shown up on Kickstarter that are actually being worked on with some sort of progress.

Even EQ Next has mostly fallen off the radar, and since the studio change and new focus, I doubt it'll be what it's being purported to be as well.

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No MMO has ever been successful yet from a Kickstarter. Not many games are either. So.. nothing new? Don't say something completely silly and obvious and use it in an arguement.

Most kickstarters are scams. I would never pay for one.

EQNext was never a kickstarter game. Its developers were also going against a lot of what they said in the very beginning. So I am glad it got off the radar. Maybe they can turn it into something like it was suppost to be when it was originally revealed. They still have Jeremy Soul working for the music.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

moop

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So, I'm trying to understand your standpoint here. Sure, the argument over vertical vs horizontal progression is definitely something that can be discussed back and forth for days. The fact of the matter here is the game is lacking in content variety. You stated earlier that you detest pretty much everything that this game offers. Specifically talking about repeatable content. That's exactly all that's done in this game and in almost every other game out there. The problem is we see the same repeatable crap from the beginning of 2.0. grind dungeons for tomes until you cap, repeat when uncapped. Go into the raid and hope you clear it all for the week, repeat again the next week.

We have an expansion with pretty much the same exact things going on, except they have a different face. Alexander is essentially the same as coil, the only difference is that the gear is distributed differently. The floors in this raid actually mirror the mechanics of various turns of coil. The only hope they have now to keep a lot of people is if this new island thing is any different from the same REPEATED content that we've seen 3.0 offer, so far. Voidark won't be any different from Crystal Tower and it will be REPEATED hundreds of times in one week until people get the ONE drop they seek.

People argue that there's tons of content if you really look. Which is true, but not many people care to do old content that gives them little to nothing. The problem is the only progression here is through tomes or raid. Both accessible to casual as well as hardcore, but there's no middle ground where people have a choice to not have to static a raid and have to feel like they're showing up for work. Maybe people have fun with that, but I'd rather have that feeling with work and not a video game. We need more middle ground and variety with content. That's something Yoshida should have shown us with the RELEASE of Heavensward. Not in a patch several months after the fact. It's obviously a tactic the team made to ensure people kept subscriptions after people are finished with the initial content in the expansion, which was a joke.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

Hi, someone previously said about reading this on the forums. I can read japanese at an intermediate level and I can tell you that things like the vertical progression, the ilevel system being restrictive, the lack of freedom that comes with it (like not being able to play more than one job at end game competitively due to the caps), among other things, affecting their enjoyment they get from the game is been discussed on the General Discussion forum.

They also mention that the game is too solo oriented, as well as once content is been done, there is nothing to keep players interested. No replayability.

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Yet, SE still refuses to address any of it. Back in FFXI they catered so much to the JP community, but now it seems as if they refuse to acknowledge anything being said by people from all regions. To do that would mean they admit failure. Which isn't necessarily true. They just need more things added in the game and stop pushing out new content with gear that replaces older gear, too quickly.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

@Hyrist

A lot of folks are only interested in the progression aspect for a lot of reasons.

Me? I play this game to kill monsters. Kill monsters, get more powerful, to kill stronger monsters. That's.. pretty much it.

I don't craft.

I detest PvP.

I detest repeatable content(ie: wow's daily quests) and faction grinds.

I quite literally could subsist on a game that is nothing but level cap dungeon grinds.

I'm not everyone though.

I do agree that they seem to be spreading themselves too thin with the team they have. It's not very large and they're trying to do a *lot*. I've said it before, they need to pick a demographic and stick with it.

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They did. They picked the demographic that likes doing a variety.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

They did. They picked the demographic that likes doing a variety.

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Except they're spreading themselves too thin.

Waaaay too thin. And I, for one, am displeased at dungeon reduction with the patches, because that was something they did *right*. More dungeons, more often thanks.

@jonditaru, it'll be easier to answer you more later when I can get back online(nets out), but repeatable content specifically refers to daily quests. They're boring as balls.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Except they're spreading themselves too thin.

Waaaay too thin. And I, for one, am displeased at dungeon reduction with the patches, because that was something they did *right*. More dungeons, more often thanks.

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Well, there's a reason why they reduced it from three dungeons to two. The only problem is nobody wants to see if the tradeoff will be worth it in the long run.