Dear Square Enix! Make the game harder, not easier!

Yes, please SE don't nerf content that is already in the game that would just be silly. Much of the content could use an increase in difficulty as it is, why the hell would you Nerf more of it lol?

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

Just warning, nerfing old content every time new content comes out is a good way to make players feel their achievements mean nothing, which is bad for an mmo. Speeding up progressions somehow (though not too quickly) is a better direction to take as opposed to simply making it easier/easy which makes players feel their effort was wasted and likely less liable to redo with other players.

Why try not when it will be handed out later?

edit: also, if your going to make harder content while making older content easier, doesn't that create an odd jump in difficultly for players who come in late?

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With the way that power creep works this is the way MMO's have always been anyway. You do new content to get gear that's better than the gear you already have which in turn would make older content easier anyway, they're simply skipping the middle-man.

Babby edition.

Making a big chunk of content not accessible by the majority of players is bad business practice. It'll end with this game being an even more niche market. Coil is going to be accessible by most people regardless because this is a progression based game. People need to stop thinking that this is FFXi once your gear level catches up to the challenge it won't be nearly as difficult.

The dumb thing is challenge can be created for yourself extremely easily, yet people are lazy and want the devs to do it for them. If you really cared about challenge you would just do everything in only AF with level 45 weapons but you wouldn't because it's not about challenge it's about thinking you're better than others. It is all about showing off that new shiny that only 5% of the people with the most time to play the game can get. Let's be honest there's very little in any MMO that doesn't boil down to just having enough people and enough time.

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

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After a expansion all our work is worthless anyways... so why does it matter. New gear higher levels better stats. Yoshida thinks this will keep people happy and playing it is honestly the opposite effect but what ever devs will learn the hard way. It is the mainstream progression model. Make people work hard then make all their hard work pointless next patch. The old gear treadmill, worst invention of the modern mmo that ARR is stupidly embracing.

If gear is worthless nerfing the content is the obvious choice honestly.

The latency is whats killing most people, the fights give no room to breath and are hard for casuals or those who aren't elitist. Ifrit and Garuda could use a 5% nerf at most, while titan could use a 10% nerf. Ontop of that, make a gear check when you que up. You shouldn't even be able to que for titan unless you are full darklight.

IMO...
AK: darklight accs
ifrit: Darklight accessories + at least 3 pieces of AK armor
garuda: darklight accessories + at least 3 peices of Darklight
titan:full darklight or better, either previous primals weapon.

binding coil: darklight + at least garuda's weapon.

Dungeons need a gear check, at least for endgame.

"Other people succeeding at this game makes me feel like I'm not a special snowflake. That's not fair! Make it too hard for the majority of people! I have to be a special snowflake!"

Yeah, shutting people out of actual content is sure working for WoW right now. :-)

And before you even start - no, LFR is not actual content.

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Originally Posted by pochte

The latency is whats killing most people, the fights give no room to breath and are hard for casuals or those who aren't elitist. Ifrit and Garuda could use a 5% nerf at most, while titan could use a 10% nerf. Ontop of that, make a gear check when you que up. You shouldn't even be able to que for titan unless you are full darklight.

IMO...
AK: darklight accs
ifrit: Darklight accessories + at least 3 pieces of AK armor
garuda: darklight accessories + at least 3 peices of Darklight
titan:full darklight or better, either previous primals weapon.

binding coil: darklight + at least garuda's weapon.

Dungeons need a gear check, at least for endgame.

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I really don't think they need a nerf. They need to fix the latency issues where the server is "seeing" people at a different position than the player is seeing (primarily because the sync is off). They said they fixed it, but they haven't.

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

Just warning, nerfing old content every time new content comes out is a good way to make players feel their achievements mean nothing, which is bad for an mmo. Speeding up progressions somehow (though not too quickly) is a better direction to take as opposed to simply making it easier/easy which makes players feel their effort was wasted and likely less liable to redo with other players.

Why try not when it will be handed out later?

edit: also, if your going to make harder content while making older content easier, doesn't that create an odd jump in difficultly for players who come in late?

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I've never understood this mindset.

What you achieve when content is "relevant" will never be taken away from you. Why does it matter what others achieve when they outgear the content you tackled when you were undergeared?

Why does it matter to you if other people get to down the boss, and get some shiny loot? You already got your shiny loot. Stop being so damn selfish and insecure.

I'm all for challenging content but this lag stuff making the fight harder than it should be is just ridiculous. Even being able to evade everything just fine it's just not fun for me at all having to constantly adjust for the rather huge lag this game has on pretty much everything

You really want encounters to be challenging because of poor coding instead of challenging because they actually are?

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

I really don't think they need a nerf. They need to fix the latency issues where the server is "seeing" people at a different position than the player is seeing (primarily because the sync is off). They said they fixed it, but they haven't.

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The small % nerf would be to counteract the lag people get, cuz as a healer half the time i don't see the double/triple aoe go off until all 3 have and by then theres plumes spawned and it makes it even more difficult to heal. You wanna know WHY whm/sch never try and join this fight? BECAUSE IT SUCKS AS A HEALER AND WE DO NOT LIKE TO DO IT. ^^
Everything else while it can be challenging, it's fun. Titan is just evil.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

I've never understood this mindset.

What you achieve when content is "relevant" will never be taken away from you. Why does it matter what others achieve when they outgear the content you tackled when you were undergeared?

Why does it matter to you if other people get to down the boss, and get some shiny loot? You already got your shiny loot. Stop being so damn selfish and insecure.

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Because that's part of being human. Yeah, you know your achievements, you know what they mean to you, but they're worthless. Because if everyone is 'special', then no one is. If everyone is at the top, then they're also at the bottom. There should always be something that not everyone can just log on and do because they 'felt like it'.

That's the whole damn point of a gear treadmill. That's the whole damn point of putting the carrot on the friggin' stick. If you can just grab everything, if you can just reach out and grab that carrot, then the designers are doing something wrong. An MMO that doesn't put things just out of your reach, that doesn't make you put in time and effort, is an MMO doomed to fail.

There is a reason people say vanilla and Pre-2.4 TBC WoW were the best points in the game's history, and it wasn't that 'new mmo' smell.

Nerfing content is fine, but not for the wrong reasons. Nerfing raids because casual X can't invest the time to find a group of people to do it with is a bad reason. If you can't put in the time why do you deserve the same level of gear? THAT is entitlement.

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Originally Posted by pochte

The latency is whats killing most people, the fights give no room to breath and are hard for casuals or those who aren't elitist. Ifrit and Garuda could use a 5% nerf at most, while titan could use a 10% nerf. Ontop of that, make a gear check when you que up. You shouldn't even be able to que for titan unless you are full darklight.

IMO...
AK: darklight accs
ifrit: Darklight accessories + at least 3 pieces of AK armor
garuda: darklight accessories + at least 3 peices of Darklight
titan:full darklight or better, either previous primals weapon.

binding coil: darklight + at least garuda's weapon.

Dungeons need a gear check, at least for endgame.

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sorry, but I gotta stop you right there, for the primals I beat them in AF ... it's only for titan that I had DL and I wasn't even in full DL either... those fights are about learning the patterns and dodging!! ....

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Originally Posted by Nevik

sorry, but I gotta stop you right there, for the primals I beat them in AF ... it's only for titan that I had DL and I wasn't even in full DL either... those fights are about learning the patterns and dodging!! ....

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Good for you?
However, not everyone has the luck with ending w/ competent players, thus, the gear should be required as a test for going. DL takes maybe, 2 weeks to get the set? And a previous weapon shows determination to be better.
If you have the patience to deal with something like that, you deserve a shot at the weapon/relic/whatever.
And it's 2 weeks if you do 2-3 runs a day, seen some people do it in a 3 days so it's not to bad.
Just...something better then af. Cuz saw a tank enter in full AF with only 4.6k hp and he got oneshot. The gear is for the group not being a waste of time, and to give everyone a chance at winning.

My option - Dungeons must not get nerfed at all , because who want to run CM , Praetorium , AK with Sastasha difficulty LOL's !
Ifrit (hard) - no nerf again , since it really easy like 1/2 win if Duty Finder .
Garuda - Idk really , i winned this w/o any problems multiple times (used DF and was main tank paladin) , some peoples can't win this because can't understand phase 2 (?? or idk) - okay Garuda win 1~2% nerf maximum.
Titan - i didn't win yet (but trying as hell everyday) , as paladin hard to get in shout group , no matter skills/gear , so useing DF 80% time (which about all was waste exept 1~2 learning drill days) : Titan 2% nerf on heart hp , and 1/4 reduce his ability cast/recast speed

Well im done if they gonna nerf easy content that doesn't award players that don't know how to move I don't know what to say to this. Guess they made the decision for me to quit this game I don't want shit handed to me or things easier what the hell happen to this game geez.

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Originally Posted by KingBerry

Well im done if they gonna nerf easy content that doesn't award players that don't know how to move I don't know what to say to this. Guess they made the decision for me to quit this game I don't want shit handed to me or things easier what the hell happen to this game geez.

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a 5-10% nerf on primals wouldn't hurt. More then that..yeah. Don't.

then quit, I think they are already expecting locusts to drop off once they finish this content and come back when they release new one.

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Originally Posted by pochte

Good for you?
However, not everyone has the luck with ending w/ competent players.

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it almost sounds like you're saying I was carried through all 3 primals, I must be very lucky then because I play as WHM, and it's very hard to carry a WHM ....but I'll leave it alone b/c there's no way you'll know how "competent" I am if we've never played together...

moving on, I'm not saying it's not a good idea to be "geared" I just don't like the idea of people selling that you MUST have XYZ gear in order to win a certain fight because believe me, in titan I've seen fully geared DL players still getting their ass blown up by lay of the land and even land slide

but then again I guess the gear just helped them survived the hit, didn't help me tho since I have to now use MP to heal or worst raise them....

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Originally Posted by Nevik

it almost sounds like you're saying I was carried through all 3 primals, I must be very lucky then because I play as WHM, and it's very hard to carry a WHM ....but I'll leave it alone b/c there's no way you'll know how "competent" I am if we've never played together...

moving on, I'm not saying it's not a good idea to be "geared" I just don't like the idea of people selling that you MUST to have XYZ gear in other to win a certain fight because believe me, in titan I've see fully geared DL players still getting their ass blown up my lay of the land and even land slide

but then again I guess the gear just helped them survived the hit, didn't help me tho since I have to now use MP to heal or worst raise them....

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It is actually very easy to carry a whm in 8man content outside of maybe the later Coil turns.

Content Difficulty Nerfs {Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.}
Fixes to Server Lag Issues {Yes, please.}

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Originally Posted by Nevik

stuff.

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I'm a whm myself, there is no way to carry you. However, it is easier to heal and do your job with people who are geared. So you probably got lucky there and havn't had to deal with people who think full af is ok for titan.
Ifrit fine, ok. He's a pattern boss 100% and gear isn't to important.
Garuda it starts to become important when people can be 1 shot by messing up once.
Titan is ridiculous because even with the best gear, this fight is still hard without people knowing what they are doing, and gear helps.

As the saying goes, the gear doesn't make the player, but it sure as heck helps!

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Originally Posted by Aicasia

It is actually very easy to carry a whm in 8man content outside of maybe the later Coil turns.

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then I'm sorry for you and the WHMs you and your group had to carry...

I don't mind the plan to eventually tone down content per se. I would just respectfully ask the devs to consider how quickly you do it. Especially now, in the game's infancy. I was a pretty constant endgamer in XI for years. I plan on being an endgame leader in XIV as well, doing it every day. But right now, at the start of the game, I'm trying to enjoy everything the game has to offer. I craft, I gather I'm trying other classes besides my 1 lvl 50. I would like a little more time than 3 months to get to and enjoy the difficult endgame content the way it was meant to be played before it is trivialized. I think content should be kept at its original difficulty for at least 2 patches, or 6 months, before being toned down. That should give everyone who wants to experience it in this manner plenty of time to do so. Please don't force me to ignore the rest of your game so I can get to all endgame content before it gets the nerf hammer, SE!

I would have the devs maintain the course and direction that they have already set, whatever that may turn out to be. I believe they've made too many compromises on the behalf of players/fans/media, between versions 1.0 and 2.0.

An example of what I mean would be what happened to gathering, which before comprised of some actual gameplay. Well a lot of people complained about it being too random, time consuming, and should not be skill-based. So now we have something that requires no effort other than taxing on our self-motivation to not give in to the boredom. It feels more time consuming now than it ever did.

Now that's not to say I don't enjoy or like this game in its current iteration, because I do. I'm having fun. Do I miss some things from version 1.0? Hell yea.

Nonetheless, it's not my game, it's the devs' game. I'm more interested in what they do with it, rather than dwelling on what was, or what I think should be.

Guessing the OP has a great internet connection and no lag. Awesome.

Come on already, this thread makes no sense. The game has good pacing of hardness already. Stop trying to make FFXIV into FFXI, play ffxi if you want that old school MMOs that punish you and little rewards. You knew what you were getting into when this relaunch happen, its not like Square didn't point out that game would be for us casuals as well. FFXIV Arr is different animal from 1.0 version and FFXI.

Keep pvp abilities separate from regular abilities is what I recommend to Square. We don't want Elitists like OP and pvpers to take control of regular players gameplay. Don't touch our abilities if pvp is broken or mess up when it comes. Put into play different abilities for pvp its that simple.

And no need to make game any harder, just make newer dungeons or when higher lvls come into play than you may increase al little bit at a time. You can't throw away you initial fan-base who bought his game FFXIV ARR at its current form for a reason. Sorry Doowie, Square has FFXI still available, I played it 4 years. Its the game for elite players like you who like very few on top and put others down.

Pvp abilities ARE separate from regular abilities, they said so recently. Patch 2.1 will include new dungeon, new raid, 2 leveling dungeons now with a 50 version, extreme modes for primals and will include NO NERF YET.

also pvp, so if you don't want scripted battles and cool as hell gear then pvp is for you.

I'm sorry but if you think Ifrit Hard needs to be nerfed you should probably quit the game right now.

I think difficult content and casuals can coexist. Most MMOs do the mistake and just focus on one direction, or at least it's not balanced between both types of players. I really like the idea of different tears of items. Everyone is abled to get a shiny piece of armor and the only difference is if you have the +1, +2 or the +3 one. Casuals can have something shiny and people demanding harder content can upgrade the armor. It's just bad when casuals get nothing shiny and have no feeling of improvement. But there should be definatly something for those all day long grinders. SE should just not make the mistake and focus on theese players and leave casuals behind.

I personally hate this, because I'd love to try the content while its difficult, but im EXTREMELY slow to level up and gather gear.

Every time I finally get into range, they drop the difficulty, or already did.

I would have a preference if some option to keep "hard mode" still hard, yet offer the easier version too, existed for those like me.

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Originally Posted by Aicasia

Because that's part of being human. Yeah, you know your achievements, you know what they mean to you, but they're worthless. Because if everyone is 'special', then no one is. If everyone is at the top, then they're also at the bottom. There should always be something that not everyone can just log on and do because they 'felt like it'.

That's the whole damn point of a gear treadmill. That's the whole damn point of putting the carrot on the friggin' stick. If you can just grab everything, if you can just reach out and grab that carrot, then the designers are doing something wrong. An MMO that doesn't put things just out of your reach, that doesn't make you put in time and effort, is an MMO doomed to fail.

There is a reason people say vanilla and Pre-2.4 TBC WoW were the best points in the game's history, and it wasn't that 'new mmo' smell.

Nerfing content is fine, but not for the wrong reasons. Nerfing raids because casual X can't invest the time to find a group of people to do it with is a bad reason. If you can't put in the time why do you deserve the same level of gear? THAT is entitlement.

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Did you even play in TBC? You could pug just about everything except for maybe the end bosses in the raids, and Sunwell, of course (though plenty of people still farmed the crap out of trash in there). They nerfed those raids both by removing attunements, as well as by doing actual nerfs.

Now it's nearly impossible to pug anything in WoW. And the subscription numbers are showing that strain.

If you can get the carrot on that stick when the content is relevant, then I don't see why the carrot somehow isn't a carrot anymore if someone comes along six months later and gets another version of it.

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

nerfing old content every time new content comes out is a good way to make players feel their achievements mean nothing, which is bad for an mmo.

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Yeah, I can't really fathom this. If level caps are going to be raised, new classes implemented, etc., then content should get easier on its own, allowing people to catch up.

As it is now, a player is kind of an idiot to bother attempting to devise a strategy for a hard fight knowing full-well that in a couple months that very content will struggle to help you complete it. It's more efficient in all ways just to wait and get the rewards handed to you than to fight to earn (soon to be outdated) gear as soon as it becomes available.

No I really don't understand why you have to make previous content easier when new content comes out. I work hard to beat those battles why hand them on a silver platter to people.

Titan HM is a great fight, I love the dodging, but for anyone with latency issues it can be impossible to beat. On the issue of difficulty, I feel that it needs to be more even between classes. As it is, the healers difficulty is incredibly high, while for everyone else it's pretty average. Players are not given a comparable challenge, it is focused on the ability of the healers and your amount of latency.

I hope by "harder" you mean not more grinding.

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Originally Posted by Terasan

Too bad he got roflstomped by a RDM in completely crap gear.

Anyways, on topic.

The game, as it is, is already designed to have multiple content levels. If you can't wrap your brain around HOW2MOVEOUTOFREDCIRCLE, you probably don't deserve the relic you're likely working on. Hard Primals are supposed to be hard. The dodging in this game is not difficult. It's not a bug that you can't figure out how to move. Get better, suck less, get gear. Not even being elitist here, or at least not trying to be. This game is a challenge, but not nerf-level YET.

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http://zam.zamimg.com/ffxi/i/images/mobs/Clipper.jpg

My biggest problem is that I find the game to be most fun in four man settings.

I haven't done Coil yet, but Titan and Garuda NM, and Ifrit HM demanded more out of the group than the 8 man story stuff.

Even Ifrit NM demanded just as much.

I would love a game that focused on lowman endgame. Lowman does not for a single instant mean easy, your thesaurus just listed it there by mistake.

instant hard mode buff: Now all dungeon have 12h cooldown before you can rejoin. After you wipe 1 time dungeon will end.

all I care about is for them to fix the issue of having to dodge attacks by 2+ seconds extra due to server latency, make mechanics harder sure but make sure your players hit when they are hit, not when there half away across the room from the AOE but Canada says NOPE! and explodes you anyway.

[/SarcasmOn]The OP is totally right. 100% of us should pay a subscription to help develop content that only the top 1% of elite players can enjoy. That makes total business sense.[/SarcasmOff]

Hopefully the 1% of elite players left won't mind when the subscription goes up to $1300 dollars a month to keep things ticking over.

I'm all for hard content but not in one encounter that can utterly screw you just because the game can't actually draw stuff on the screen properly in time with when the server thinks those items are on screen, then penalizes you for not getting out of the way of said item because its drawn it 2 seconds later. I would love to play that encounter on a level field where if I get out of the plume I don't take damage. I reacted in time. I still dont think I would get through it but at the moment the difficulty is the encounter + some really random elements introduced by lag.

I really don't like where they are going with this... I am not experienced MMO player so I had no idea they do this in most of MMO's. Really? They nerf original content so everyone can do it? I don't see them doing this in singleplayer games. Emerald Weapon never got a nerf in FF7. Penance never got nerf in FFX etc. I just don't understand why we need nerfs. Atleast they should give unique title for those who actually beat the real fight instead of the new baby version that is coming.

I can understand that once new gear start coming in, old content becomes easier because of the new gear you have but making the boss hit less, become slower and having less HP on top of your new gear is just so lame. I though I was casual since I work 8 hours each day but I guess I am not.