YOSHI FIX THE DANG GIL ISSUE THAT IS KILLING OUR PLAYERS!!!

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Originally Posted by Taytar

I missed it the first time around, but I do understand what you are saying now. How was FFXI different? It seems there were less ways that gil was introduced into the system in that one? I know some hated the economy, I liked it....

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it's 11 years later. there are better systems.

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Originally Posted by Taytar

My guide to getting rid of these dumbass posts.

1) Stop teleporting everywhere.
2) Stop teleporting everywhere.
3) Gil comes from earning it, do something to earn it.
a) gathering, farming mats, whatever floats your boat.
4) Don't spend gil on stupid things you'll replace soon.
5) Stop making these stupid posts.
6) If you can't adhere to 1-5 go back to your cookie cutter mmo's and dailies.

I expect 10% of all your earnings using my copyrighted method. Thank you.

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Another person that have no clue what the OP discussion was.

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Originally Posted by Breladine

I made 100k in the last few days just selling the stuff that was dropped off mobs on the AH with my retainer. That's after I use my gil constantly to teleport around everywhere because I'm lazy. I haven't touched a crafter, I'm just selling things from my bag on the market block, nothing more. I'm baffled by people saying they have money problems? I don't get it.

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Where did you get that 100k? From someone who gave you it. The money shifted, it was not created and 5% of it was lost immediately (which is 5k gone)

So if people did what you did with that same amount of gil, it would just be 100k-5%, 95k- 5%, 90k - 5%85k - 5% eventually it hits so low and 0 and all the money has been removed from the economy. But what do you do with that 100k? You go spend it on repairs, or vender materials, which removes it from economy.

The amount being completely removed from the game INSANELY outweights the amount going into the game due to dry'd up systems.

You have completely misunderstood the point, no one has issues making money of the AH, the AH does not generate new money, it removes %5 of existing money and shifts the money to another person, Therefor reducing and moving, nothing else, Zero increase in general wealth.

edit: sorry its 10% from AH, so:

100k of stuff sold. You buy 100k of stuff
90k is passed, they buy 90k of stuff
81k is passed, they buy 81k of stuff
72.9k is passed, they buy 72.9k of stuff
65k is passed, they buy 65k of stuff,
59k is passed, they buy 50k of stuff,
53k is passed, they buy 53k of stuff,
47k is passed.

7 (not including first net gain) transactions using the same gil circling the economy and already the game has removed over half of it. This is same no matter number
500k only takes 7 transactions to go down to 239k, so the game has removed 261k of gil, how is it getting back into the economy?
Is there enough people doing fates/quests and selling on AH (to start the cycle of their new income) that out weights how quickly 500k passes through 7 transactions?

big problem.

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Originally Posted by soulrot

Another person that have no clue what the OP discussion was.

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another person who can't read the post above theirs?

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Originally Posted by Taytar

I missed it the first time around, but I do understand what you are saying now. How was FFXI different? It seems there were less ways that gil was introduced into the system in that one? I know some hated the economy, I liked it....

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People spent hours upon hours farming things to npc, and used gil duplication exploits that were never fully recovered. Once the money is in circulation and not being taken out (there are no repairs in FFXI), it's harder to lose. The only way money got taken out of FFXI was through AH fees, which made up a tiny portion of total gil changing hands between players (any big ticket items were bazaared outside of cities where there was no tax).

I absolutely love threads like this, it's a sure way to find the most uneducated and stupid ppl and put them on ignore, so I don't accidentally take their opinion/ideas seriously in a completely different topic where there is room for error or speculations, but failing simple math....MATH!? nope.

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Originally Posted by Taytar

5) Stop making these stupid posts.

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You have to repair to do anything, and repair costs a lot. Teleporting is not an issue, most stuff is through duty finder...

Gathering? Farming Mats? Who is going to buy this when there is no money going into the economy as all the money is being removed by the game? its -ok- now kind of OK because there is an influx of new players and old doing the story and lots going into the game but these quests are not repeatable. once you complete story you only have your remaining quests and other chore low income stuff for a few mere hundred gil. 10 quests is 1 repair lol Complete them, they gone. Forever.

So yeh... you should follow your #5 advice and think about the issue, no one has issues making money on AH, the issue is, who is going to be buying from the AH once the game removes it all? Gil is being depleted in the economy at an excelling rate.

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Originally Posted by Kupo_Nut

I absolutely love threads like this, it's a sure way to find the most uneducated and stupid ppl and put them on ignore, so I don't accidentally take their opinion/ideas seriously in a completely different topic where there is room for error or speculations, but failing simple math....MATH!? nope.

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I hear math is hard. /sarcasm

A big problem for this game is that SE overly prepared for RMT. It's the only reason even my level 30 crafted gear sells for what to vendor? like 20 gil? And the NPC might want thousands to sell it to you? That's ridiculous. I would never sell it to vendor(right now) but that's the offered price. We can't make no money from selling to vendors, and vendors are typically THE way to put more gil into the economy. SE takes RMT too seriously. They take it personally. And it affected us harshly in FFXI, and it's affecting us now.

This won't end well at the start of a MMO's life. It got by the skin of it's teeth in XI because it was years established. This game won't have that benefit. SE needs to accept RMT enough to not affect our gameplay. THEN they can keep on banishing them with their tried and true techniques til they are blue in the face. RMT are alive and well here. It's their job. I don't really see the point in making everyone suffer except RMT.

Here's the TLDR; on sources of money:

1. Quests and one-time only dungeon rewards: The biggest source of gil by far, but by definition, not repeatable.
2. Items sold to NPCs (quest rewards): Quest rewards are once-only.
3. Items sold to NPCs (crafted): Items that you craft to npc more often than not sell for less than what it cost you to acquire the mats and make them in repairs. At best, they are an extremely time-costly way to make gil, and if you think that constitutes "gameplay", I feel sorry for you.
4. Items sold to other players: Items sold to players in ANY fashion, where drops, crafted, mined, fished, harvested, do not create any gil - they REMOVE gil when sold through the market. 10% of everything you sell to other players through the market disappears.
5. Gil from leves and fates: Gil from leves and fates is, by and large, incredibly mismatched with the costs of acquiring it. Go to the mender after each fate and see if you actually made a profit; often you won't.

Right now weaver and leather-working will give you decent amounts of money. Undyed felt and High end skins turned into leathers will sell for a ton more money than simple ores/ingots. Seriously anybody who has weaver and leatherworker leveled should be filthy rich. Toss in Botanist to acquire crawler cocoons for twinthread and you'll be rolling in cash in no time at all. The reason is that plenty of other recipes in other crafts such as armorer require these leathers/felt and if they don't have weaver/leather leveled they are forced to buy them for outrageous prices. Even more so if its a +1. There you now have the secret to make lots of money. Heck leatherworker and farming hippogryphs in Mordhona should make you a rich man by itself.

That being said, there is a bit of a gap on income in and income out that needs to be addressed. The heinous repair costs don't help either.

Edit: Not related but why the shit is DM so hard to come by now (GC only) and why the hell is flagging for repairs so much more difficult than it was in 1.0. In 1.2x you repaired like this: Open menu >click repair all > hammer appears above head > wander around Uldah for 1 minute until you were fully repaired. Also I have a feeling Yoshida and the devs are laughing at us for complaining about DM being dropped from treasure chests most of the time in 1.0. "You bastards complain about Dark Matter being plentiful, now see how you like it when you have to farm seals for it!"

Again people keep underestimating the amount of gil constantly being introduced into the game via fates. Several hundreds of players are all constantly completing a minimum of 20 fates every 2 minutes thorughout multiple zones everyone of them is gaining gil AND seals.

I did over 30 fates and my gear was not even 1/2 damaged had I repaired without doing dungeon runs im sure i wouldnt have spent more then 500gil. Netting 2.5k multiple that by a couple thousand every hour and you start to see how much is really coming in.

That dont even touch all the other incoming gil from other sources that have been discussed over and over and over again.

People also keep overestimating repair costs for all those people doing fates etc, you hit 3-4 monsters and get full credit, or hit a boss 10-15 times there is no repair cost... the majority of people are NOT running around in raid gear that is super expensive to repair.

The simple answer might be found in who Yoshida and his team are, and the MMO background that he himself had. Among the games he played before involvement in the industry were Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot and World of Warcraft. All three are notorious for massive inflation of in game currency due to a lack of gold sinking. 1.0 had such plentiful dark matter that efficient tactics or just speedrunners could always come out with profit, potentially huge profit. This means insufficient gold sink. Yoshida's MMO gaming history has been rife with game economies that have succumb to insane degrees of inflation over the years. Naturally, and rather rightly, he has steered this game into a direction that is deflating the economy. Deflation is bad in the long term, and this will likely be balanced by the dailies in 2.1.

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Originally Posted by ShadowKuraido

People also keep overestimating repair costs for all those people doing fates etc, you hit 3-4 monsters and get full credit, or hit a boss 10-15 times there is no repair cost... the majority of people are NOT running around in raid gear that is super expensive to repair.

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Let's say, despite all evidence to the contrary, that there is no cost to fates and you get 100gil per fate.

Even if that is true, it would take FIFTY OR MORE fates to cover the repairs of ONE AK geared player ONE time.

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Originally Posted by Furious

Let's say, despite all evidence to the contrary, that there is no cost to fates and you get 100gil per fate.

Even if that is true, it would take FIFTY OR MORE fates to cover the repairs of ONE AK geared player ONE time.

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Wrong 50 fates would give you 7500+ seals as well which is if you wanted enough to buy 5 grade 5 dark matter with 2.2k seals leftover. The point is not for level 50s to farm fates for gil to repair but that thousands of players are constantly running fates to level mains/ alts/ secondary roles/ seals, etc which generates an insane amount of gil.

I dont have experience with lvl 50 dungeons how long does one take on avererage to complete? How long to wait in duty finder to get in? How many does an average player run per day?

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Originally Posted by ShadowKuraido

Wrong 50 fates would give you 7500+ seals as well which is if you wanted enough to buy 5 grade 5 dark matter with 2.2k seals leftover. The point is not for level 50s to farm fates for gil to repair but that thousands of players are constantly running fates to level mains/ alts/ secondary roles/ seals, etc which generates an insane amount of gil.

I dont have experience with lvl 50 dungeons how long does one take on avererage to complete? How long to wait in duty finder to get in? How many does an average player run per day?

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How Long do this 50 fates take? I tried out a Fate pt for the first time today and it was boring as hell... half the time the fate was ending when I arrived... Somteimes you just stand there minutes waiting for something to Pop up...
5 DM5 but 13 Slots, nearly 3 times that amount is needed, to once repair all your gear. If you find a bad PT all your gear Needs repair after one dungeon...cause if you'r unlucky it will break during the next.
DF waiting time propably depends on what class/Job you take, till now as Tank beeing lvl 41 most of the time it takes less then 30 seconds.
Personally right now cause of the high repair cost I avoid to do dungeons as much as possible. But I'd like to do them more cause that's actually contend I like to do.

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Originally Posted by LyleVertigo

Here's a tip,
Stop using the teleport every time you gotta leave somewhere beyond 5 yalms.

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Here's an even better tip.

Read the original post, comprehend what the original post is saying, formulate your response and if the response doesn't address the point made in the original post, go back to step 1.

Some people...

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Originally Posted by ananda

Based on my personal experience, the tradecraft leve is the best money generator in the game. Especially the ones that asks you to turn in 3 things and are then repeatable if you turn in HQ stuff.

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This.
Especially if you can buy the items cheaper in the AH than the leves give you.
There are enough money sources. The problem is that people ignore them most. Or nobody would sell Ether under 30 gil.

I still think this is intentional, especially for the legacy servers.

Just slow down the expense for now, if you think you're going bankrupt.

Im really surprised on either 1 how stupid people are, or how lazy they are. So many people complaining about repair costs, if it bothers you THAT much then level a crafting class and REPAIR YOUR OWN DAMN GEAR. The vendor items to repairyour own gear are pitiful costs in comparison to merchant repairing, might be an idea to do it yourself.

It definitely seems to me like they are trying to suck the legacy servers gil dry so that they can level the playing field before introducing more enjoyable and simpler ways to generate money in the game. I think it was the simpler and more subtle way to get rid of their gil without blatantly stealing it from them.

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Originally Posted by Bjinc

Im really surprised on either 1 how stupid people are, or how lazy they are. So many people complaining about repair costs, if it bothers you THAT much then level a crafting class and REPAIR YOUR OWN DAMN GEAR. The vendor items to repairyour own gear are pitiful costs in comparison to merchant repairing, might be an idea to do it yourself.

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Sure DM is free that way, it magically appears out of nowhere... and forcing People that want to do dungeons, to Level all crafting classes to 50 except cul, seems so to fit the " we make a game that casuals can Play too"... Compared to this V1 gave me more of a casual Feeling.

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Originally Posted by Felis

This.
Especially if you can buy the items cheaper in the AH than the leves give you.
There are enough money sources. The problem is that people ignore them most. Or nobody would sell Ether under 30 gil.

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Am I the only one that thinks something is totaly wrong with the economy if Items sell so low on the market that it's more worth to trade it to NPCs? O_o
Isn't it a clear sign that something is wrong if stuff is sold so cheap on the market that you can buy it from there and sell it to an NPC and make Profit?

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Originally Posted by Deatheye

Sure DM is free that way, it magically appears out of nowhere... and forcing People that want to do dungeons, force to Level all crafting classes to 50 except cul, seems so to fit the " we make a game that casuals can Play too"... Compared to this V1 gave me more of a casual Feeling.

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Im sorry but who is forcing you to do anything? its mearly a means to make repairs cheaper for yourself. You dont HAVE to do anything.

I would like to add my complete and utter dismay at people trading the Allagan pieces on the Marketboards... Not only the muppets who sell them, but the idiots that buy them. THere is a 5% levy on the marketboards, so there is a 5% loss. What is the point? Sure the odd person may be trolling, but at my last check there were 347 postings of Allagan pieces! *double facepalm*

Japan has been in recession for the past years, i think they copied Japan's economy too much into FFXIV... no wonder FFXIV has an economy in recession at launch.

1. Farm Tomestones of philosophy in AK or wherever you prefer.
2. Buy rare crafting materials at revenants toll for 125 tomestones.
3. Sell for 100k+
4. profit.

God you people are idiots. SELLING STUFF TO THE MARKET DOES NOT GENERATE GIL BUT SIMPLE MOVES IT AROUND FROM PLAYER TO PLAYER.

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Originally Posted by Mhyrria

God you people are idiots. SELLING STUFF TO THE MARKET DOES NOT GENERATE GIL BUT SIMPLE MOVES IT AROUND FROM PLAYER TO PLAYER.

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Doesn't much matter to me as long as it's moving it around in my direction.

Repair at NPCs. Its A LOT cheaper than use 1 Dark Matter for each piece of gear. I dunno why you guys need so much money since money is almost worthless in this game. You dont need money to get good gears. My money is just sitting there doing nothing.

It's really painful that people are STILL missing the point. Here, let me tell you why your proposed "solutions" are still problem-causers:

1. Repair it yourself: You do know that in order to repair the lv50 (hell, let's even push it down to lv40) equipment people are wearing, a large amount of gil is needed to level those DOL and DoH classes? Level 1-35 is easy and costs very little, but that stretch from 35-50 is a massive gil sink. In addition, those higher level materials you need? You can either buy it off the Market Boards, which only just move gil from one player to another, while 5% of that gil vanishes into thin air, or you have to farm for the materials, which causes the player to push money into repairs from NPCs, which ALSO results in gil vanishing into thin air. NEITHER or these options GENERATE gil from the GAME ITSELF. There are only SINKS involved.

(cont.)

2. FATE grinding: FATEs right now generate a (extremely) small influx of gil, but what happens when most players hit the lv50 range (oh and this is VERY possible, as it happened in FFXI)? Repairs of their gear goes through the damn roof and FATEs become unable to sustain those repair costs. In addition, the amount of gil going into repairs for players overall will overshadow the amount of gil being generated by FATEs over time. Dungeons themselves eat up durability and the gil drop from those sometimes doesn't even amount to one of your items repair bill. Allagan pieces are far and few in between during lv45-50 dungeons and 90% of the time, it's Bronze or Tin pieces, which is laughable.

(cont. Also, what is with this text limit?)

3. No, selling on the Market Boards does not generate gil. Keyword here people: GENERATE. It EXCHANGES gil between players (with a 5% gil vanish as noted above), but it does not GENERATE it.

The sad reality is that people are focusing on both their personal wealth and the present state of affairs rather than looking a few months or even weeks down the line. We're up shit creek without a paddle, and there's really going to need to be more gil fountains if the game economy is to sustain itself.

Whether it is hard or not to get money I don't care. SE needs to make a fun way of making gil, this bs that crafting and leveling a doh is the only way to go is just bleh. Give me my sky gods/enms/bcnms back so I can solo content that is awesomely fun while making gil at the same time. People talk shit about some who ask for more FFXI things because it feels like work grinding this or that, well getting gil in this feels worse than all the other stuff imo and if anything this needs to be fixed because it is boring.

I am pretty sure this was done on purpose by SE. They want to be careful in the beginning and collect data and metrics to see how the gil and what amount of it flows through the game.

It´s better this way and then to adjust values (like repair COSTs) downwards later on to increase gil flow when necessary.

Then have it like what happened in so many other MMOs that endgame players were generating massive amounts of Money early on in the game and then have an already heavily inflated economy. Which ends up nearly impossible to be fixed in the end, as it leaves the early players With stockpiles of cash and New players joining the game screwed and unable to afford anything anymore.

So I am pretty sure SE sees current problems at endgame and you will probably see adjustments to either gil earnings or repair costs in a coming patch.

If you have problems with getting/keeping gils... You're doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Geldt

If you have problems with getting/keeping gils... You're doing it wrong.

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ur not even 50....... :/ rpr try getting a 6k bill for rpr. With all those high lv contents, dying its just the norm, lets c how long u last.

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Originally Posted by Dranosi

ur not even 50....... :/ rpr try getting a 6k bill for rpr. With all those high lv contents, dying its just the norm, lets c how long u last.

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lol... as if I'd post on these boards with my main,,,, you crazy bro.

I came in as a legacy player 21 carp and made one bow and it cost me around 500g to make the bow and it sold for 39 gil on the market...ridiculous....how are we suppose to make money in this game...

Fates give us nothing
Harvesting gives you nothing
defeating primals in normal mode gives you nothing

the game is great but at this rate your gonna have rage quitting overthis
this is certainly different from 1.0 but this time in a bad way....fix this SE

the less money people make the more GIL sellers will run rampant in your game count on it.

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Originally Posted by Scrubbs

*shrug* I'm a tank and I'm sitting at 500k gil :D Of course, I'm also a miner and armorer.

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Good for you but not everyone wants to go the crafting route we should have more options on making GIL some people can stay home
all day and craft craft craft even craft at work....we can't

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Originally Posted by Silvyaniss

I came in as a legacy player 21 carp and made one bow and it cost me around 500g to make the bow and it sold for 39 gil on the market...ridiculous....how are we suppose to make money in this game...

Fates give us nothing
Harvesting gives you nothing
defeating primals in normal mode gives you nothing

the game is great but at this rate your gonna have rage quitting overthis
this is certainly different from 1.0 but this time in a bad way....fix this SE

the less money people make the more GIL sellers will run rampant in your game count on it.

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There's your problem.