Online Bullying - A Dev request for a response and discussion

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

I never said not to report them. I merely said don't let them personally affect you as they've no relevance to you as a person or your life. The relation was that there are much harsher things in this world than some kid on the internet talking trash because of his own personal inadequacies.

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Gotcha, def. agree with that, if you let the trolls rile you up, then they've won.

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Originally Posted by Sidious

If you think you can change how people are on the internet, you've got another thing coming. Don't be delusional; anonymity turns otherwise normal people into raving idiots, and trying to enforce rules to combat it will just make it worse. A lot worse.

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I see zero reason why existing rules shouldn't be enforced, nor how that would make things 'worse'.

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Originally Posted by CSX

Give it some time, once they get their act together it will be like Nazi germany again or atleast how it used to be in FFXI.

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What i wouldn't give to get that same sense of community back.

It's true that the internet provides an outlet for anonymity and empowers people to get away with stuff they normally would never do IRL. However, I don't think it's right that these douchey people in this game think they can get away with what they say or do in-game. I think as some have suggested, implementing suspensions to perma bans are means of dealing with these online immature adults.

Since this is a P2P game, I think the devs have responsibility in ensuring that such trashy players are dealt with appropriately and maintaining a friendly-safe environment for all. Our money goes towards maintaining the servers, which should also include filtering out these bad types of players and creating preventative measures around these issues. As far as I have read in news and research articles, cyberbullying is treated as a crime and their have been instances where people have committed suicide because of it. If you find this hard to believe, just Google the recent Rehtaeh Parsons case.

I'd be all for a reputation system-- ask at the end of a dungeon if people would want to group with each member again. They could keep the results secret, but use them to prioritize grouping nice people with other nice people, and jerks with other jerks in the DF.

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Originally Posted by Mandze

I'd be all for a reputation system-- ask at the end of a dungeon if people would want to group with each member again. They could keep the results secret, but use them to prioritize grouping nice people with other nice people, and jerks with other jerks in the DF.

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a machine has no idea if you are nice or not lol

just because i click "plz pt me with that tank again" for every tank i play with in DF doesnt mean i am a nice person

and just because every tank never clicks on anyone but the healers to play with again doesnt mean they are not a nice person

how about if you want to have a specific group of ppl to play with you FORM YOUR OWN GROUPS instead of using a tool that forms groups for you with the first available RANDOM players?

If I wanted to get chewed out and cussed at like that, I would go work at a telemarketing company. That's not crap I want to see in something that I'm supposed to be enjoying. I would have left. Telling people to "grow thicker skin" makes you seem not much better than the butts who say crap like that in the first place.

OP you shouldn't have hidden the name of the character, you'd be more likely to get something done about at least 1 person. make the population smaller it's not like SE is having issues getting people to play their game lol

Soooooo much butthurt... I can't wait until you kids get into the real world and get fired for being retarded, and are completely unable to handle it. You can keep trying to change the world, sure it'd be great if there weren't any dicks out there. But until that happens(never), you could focus on learning how to handle it.

When I was a kid the popular saying was "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." And you know what? It's true. Who cares that someone called you a homo? Or an idiot? Or a moron? Or Oprah? If someone calling you a name affects your ability to play the game, you aren't going to have the coping skills to deal with real life.

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Originally Posted by BrainWoodstock

God, i miss the time where i could say that someone is bad, because he is bad, without them beeing butthurt. Soak it up, grow up or do something else.

I never even met such a person in duty finder, i really think you are totally overreacting as 95 % of the online community. And such playser are mostly really young ones that just dont know better, when they grow up they will learn it.

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Thing is they are not "young ones" unless you mean mentally developed. Most who use such insults are 18+ and I have even seen some 35 year olds act that way.

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Originally Posted by nasomi

Soooooo much butthurt... I can't wait until you kids get into the real world and get fired for being retarded, and are completely unable to handle it. You can keep trying to change the world, sure it'd be great if there weren't any dicks out there. But until that happens(never), you could focus on learning how to handle it.

When I was a kid the popular saying was "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." And you know what? It's true. Who cares that someone called you a homo? Or an idiot? Or a moron? Or Oprah? If someone calling you a name affects your ability to play the game, you aren't going to have the coping skills to deal with real life.

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Yes, because coping with RL = bending over and ask if they'd like a reach-around :rolleyes:

Who said anything about affecting one's ability to play the game? How does reporting DB behavior in any way shape or form a hindrance to one's gaming experience? On that note, who said anything about changing the world? I couldn't give two **** if DBs remain DBs, I just want to see them receive the proper consequences for their actions.

I also love the attempt to generalize everyone who disagree with you as kids who doesn't know what the 'real world' is like. When's the last time you had to deal with IEDs and get rained on by RPGs and mortars again?

Being able to handle 'the real world' doesn't always means becoming apathetic cynics

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Originally Posted by Lomax21

SE has a feature for this very problem... USE IT!?

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I agree. Report them for harassment. Let a GM sort it out. If they're breaking rules or terms of service, action can be taken.

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You are NEVER going to change this type of behaviour on the internet...

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Ah, but this isn't "the [wild and free] Internet", it's a paid service with rules of conduct.
Report, yes. Blacklist, yes. Move on, yes.

I am normally trying to be a positive influence, but this thread is shocking.

Being racist, sexist, homophobic or any other sort of bigoted is not okay. Believing that anyone has the right to deny others the most basic respect is not okay. It does not magically become more okay by happening in a video game. All people involved are still real people. The reaction of the victim has no relevance to the fact that this behaviour is not okay.

I am disgusted by those of you telling others to just get over it. You are part of the problem. You should be ashamed. Real people made the real decision to treat other real people like dirt, and instead of being concerned that there are people out there who think other people are worth nothing more than dirt, you are telling the victims to be silent, even mocking them. You are supporting and perpetuating the abuse.

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Originally Posted by TheTen

I am normally trying to be a positive influence, but this thread is shocking.

Being racist, sexist, homophobic or any other sort of bigoted is not okay. Believing that anyone has the right to deny others the most basic respect is not okay. It does not magically become more okay by happening in a video game. All people involved are still real people. The reaction of the victim has no relevance to the fact that this behaviour is not okay.

I am disgusted by those of you telling others to just get over it. You are part of the problem. You should be ashamed. Real people made the real decision to treat other real people like dirt, and instead of being concerned that there are people out there who think other people are worth nothing more than dirt, you are telling the victims to be silent, even mocking them. You are supporting and perpetuating the abuse.

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No one has the right to respect lol. This is an ethics issue as it pertains to human to human contact. The TOS however does say:

3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix’s computers and servers.

3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly.

I really think people tend to overreact to verbal (or text) abuse. Sticks and stones? The younger generations coming up have been coddled far to much and need to learn that you earn respect and are not entitled to it. What happened to the OP is deplorable, the best course of action is to report the person per the terms of the ToS and they will be punished I would assume.

Thank you, TheTen. I couldn't agree with you more.

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Originally Posted by TheTen

I am normally trying to be a positive influence, but this thread is shocking.

Being racist, sexist, homophobic or any other sort of bigoted is not okay. Believing that anyone has the right to deny others the most basic respect is not okay. It does not magically become more okay by happening in a video game. All people involved are still real people. The reaction of the victim has no relevance to the fact that this behaviour is not okay.

I am disgusted by those of you telling others to just get over it. You are part of the problem. You should be ashamed. Real people made the real decision to treat other real people like dirt, and instead of being concerned that there are people out there who think other people are worth nothing more than dirt, you are telling the victims to be silent, even mocking them. You are supporting and perpetuating the abuse.

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Mom he said mean things over the net. LOL if you let things said over the Internet piss you off, you should turn off the pc it's that simple. It's the Internet use the block list and ignore them don't feed into them then run around QQing about it.

And before ppl get the wrong idea I'm not saying I'm Ok with these actions. I just think the best solution is to block them and not feed into them which is the only reason they do it. Stop giving reactions and they will all become silent

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Originally Posted by TheTen

. Real people made the real decision to treat other real people like dirt, and instead of being concerned that there are people out there who think other people are worth nothing more than dirt, you are telling the victims to be silent, even mocking them. You are supporting and perpetuating the abuse.

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Perhaps some of us are previous victims that learned how to combat these type of people without putting blood in the water to attract the other sharks, just saying

Yours truly
A bullied person that is worth nothing more then dirt by your social justice armchair tumblr logic

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Originally Posted by Blazn

And before ppl get the wrong idea I'm not saying I'm Ok with these actions. I just think the best solution is to block them and not feed into them which is the only reason they do it. Stop giving reactions and they will all become silent

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You missed the report part, you can do that without feeding the troll as well - assuming the trolling went past the line, otherwise I usually just troll back/with them :)

If all of this is true and they are elitists, then why don't they form their own elite parties and leave innocent others out of it? Also this game is for all of us, not a few and if these people continue unreported their behavior will only get worse. I agree with the statement above...they need to be taught that the behavior is inappropriate.

This sounds like it should be on a 20/20 special.

OP,

There are some people that are just pricks out there. They feed off other's misery often in an attempt to boost their own self esteem. You seem to have fallen victim to such an individual. As many others have stated, it's best to blacklist and ignore. These people crave attention. Your (or anyone) that starts conversation with that kind of individual are merely supplying them with their form of entertainment. Seriously, ignore them. Get thicker skin. Don't read the chat channels. There is nothing this person can do you. Take some solace knowing that you actually deny them fun when they are ignored.

One last thing...go play some Xbox first person shooter games. Halo, CoD, BF...whatever. If you don't break down and cry for mommy/daddy to save you, you just might toughen up to realize "haters gonna hate". Seriously, thoughen up and keep playing. Crying on the forums only pleases those that make you rage (or cry).

I found one of those so far. Just ignore him and if he keeps going, go afk inside the dungeon.

Absolutely nuts how this thread has turned out.

I think the best solution would be to ensure blacklisting includes the duty finder matching, so you don't get grouped with people you don't want to play with.

To clear up some misunderstanding, it wasn't me in the pic, the chat log was taken from twitter this morning, the names were already hidden, but I assume they've been reported.

Thankfully, I've never suffered this type of abuse direct, but again and again I've seen others get beaten down by this crap and regardless of what people say, I'll always try to stand up for them and try, at least, to do the right thing.

Any of you saying that a 13 year old kid should grow thicker skin when told they should go kill themselves, well, I think you've not thought about it properly. That's not cool.

I'd appreciate it at this stage if devs could chirp in, let us know if anything is planned (or working as intended) then lock this thread.

Personally i've not experienced any bullying. Besides talking strategy, congratulations and things like that. I haven't really seen any talking in chat while doing duty finder content. I can't say i've been a perfect healer either, there has atleast been a few instances where players could have complained about one mishap or another but not a peep from any of them. Everyone's too busy brushing themselves off and charging back into the fight to get personal with each other.

Why exactly do you need the devs to fight your battles for you?

The number of people who consistently try to make themselves a bother in an instance is fairly low from my experience. Report them and move on. Like someone else in this thread said previously, a one-time situation of some random person being a jerk doesn't make them a bully.
Also, people throw out insults of any type all the time. Do they know your race/age/gender/sexuality/whateverelsepeoplegetoffendedby? Unless you have broadcast it, no they don't.
This is the internet, and people are going to behave differently. You are not entitled to people respecting you or your opinions.

If someone like the healer that was mentioned, is making the instance unplayable and trying to cause wipes, and just generally disrupting gameplay. Report him, and be glad that there is an incredibly small chance you should encounter him again using the duty finder. Or block him if he's on your server.

I found the OP pretty hilarious. That guy sounds like he did more typing than playing himself haha

Unfortunately these games now seem to attract a fair amount of sociopaths. I'm not exactly sure how that came about, when I was growing up the fantasy rpg crowd was full of power nerds who went to renaissance festivals and quoted Monty Python movies. Somehow, at some point, MMO's started to appeal to e-gangsters. Maybe they got bored playing "Shoot terrorists and make them fall down #16"?.

The hilarious thing is the guys who think talking to people like that in party chat is okay, and then I look at their forum name and it's something analogous to "Smoke420SonYoloSwag". Yup, that pretty much explains it all. I used to think it was cool to tell everyone I got lit too, when I was like 16.

I agree with most of the people posting so far, the chances of you running into people like this with Duty Finder is extremely low so try not to get to upset by it.

I won't, however, tell you to "suck it up" and "grow a pair" like some other people are, because no matter how little you will run into these types of people, it's still hell to go through when you do, especially when you're playing a game to have "fun."

We had a little system for people like these back in FFXI and BG had a player report thread that was extremely popular. If you ever talk to someone from FFXI, 90% of the time they'll tell you that the community was "the best community in any MMO on the market," but that was only because all the extremely rude/a$$hat players had been culled from the game because everyone knew who they were and refused to do anything with them.

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Originally Posted by Kanzer

There's a difference between telling someone they're bad and being a completely abusive a-hole.

That being said, the best way to combat these a-holes is to simply call them out publicly with screenshots, so people will want to avoid them. Don't cross out the names, let everyone know loud and clear who they are and what kind of person they are.

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(Btw, public shaming of "rude players" is against the TOS of FFXIV and its forums, so this is not a possibility here.)

There's a difference between telling someone they're bad and being a completely abusive a-hole.

That being said, the best way to combat these a-holes is to simply call them out publicly with screenshots, so people will want to avoid them. Don't cross out the names, let everyone know loud and clear who they are and what kind of person they are.

This PC bullshit needs to just stop. OP just grow a pair and be a man.

Honestly im reading this and seeing you failing at your job. Ofc the guy is gonna get frustrated. At the same time the language he used is inappropriate. If your not doing your job in a dungeon or your just sucking it means your not ready for that content and you should get out because your effectively screwing with the group. Being a leech is just as bad as being a troll. IMO if after 3 wipes you cant figure out what ur supposed to be doing you need to get out.

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Originally Posted by Kittra

snip

We had a little system for people like these back in FFXI and BG had a player report thread that was extremely popular. If you ever talk to someone from FFXI, 90% of the time they'll tell you that the community was "the best community in any MMO on the market," but that was only because all the extremely rude/a$$hat players had been culled from the game because everyone knew who they were and refused to do anything with them.

(Btw, public shaming of "rude players" is against the TOS of FFXIV and its forums, so this is not a possibility here.)

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And that's why we had to take it to other forums to do so. We had them on Alla and BG. If you were an ass, stole items, did "other" unmentionable things, EVERYONE knew about it. You walked around with a scarlet letter. You were marked and cast out. Did it make the community better? Absolutely. Do we need this for FFXIV? Absolutely.

My number one go to, if I ever come across someone in Duty Finder who are just generally giving me verbal abuse randomly or whatever: Use the auto-translate ''I don't speak any English'' and if I were typing in chat before so they say I do, then I just type: ''no sry, no english''. Then proceed to ignore them lol.

But I have yet to come across anyone giving anyone verbal abuse of any sort in Duty Finder, though. Mostly just kind people, as in they talked strategy, answered questions and patience lol. And all I've done dungeons so far(except one time)* is through the Duty Finder and I'm not trying to say there isn't nasty/rude people(there is on probably every game), I'm just saying there are plenty of kind/polite people as well, if not more than the rude ones.


*I do all the time do a ''Shout'' asking if anyone needs a DPS but so far I've had no success. The one time where did get in a party was because someone else was asking for a DPS(or were they using the DD term? cant remember lol). But I don't see many people asking for DPS in chat. >.>


Edit: Forgot for a moment there that Duty Finder no longer grabs people from the whole datcenter, so really I cant say anything about other than the Shiva server and the other servers it grabs from. >.>

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Originally Posted by Kanzer

There's a difference between telling someone they're bad and being a completely abusive a-hole.

....call them out publicly

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This all day long. Call them out. Seeking resolution is NOT being a whiny crybaby. The sort of behavior displayed in that image is NOT okay at home, work, school, internet, anywhere. Yes, it's going to happen. That doesn't mean it's acceptable. Yes, people should learn to deal with it, but dealing with it doesn't mean ignore it and hope it'll go away. Dealing with it is DOING something about it. Report them, take screenshots, inform their FC and LS leaders if that's possible. While it's true that there's a chance they won't actually learn a lesson and change their ways, at least you've done what you can, justice is possibly served as best as possible, and you can go on feeling a little better about it. Hell, they might even be removed from the game, and the fewer of these types that are running around Eorzea, the better.

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Originally Posted by Lomax21

Rather then freaking out I just move away

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The keyword there is, I.

You would move away. Guess what? -and this may come off as a total shock to some- people think differently. They are not all you. Try looking at it through another person's perspective. Telling people to 'just get on with it' simply because you would is a form of selfishness. We are never going to completely stop illnesses, So what? Do we eliminate all doctors and just go on with it? Yes, I am aware that this is the 'interwebs' and personally, I couldn't care less about an insult made by someone over a video game. That doesn't change the fact that there are some that do care and wish to take proper action against it.

They are never going to change this type of behavior on the internet, true, but bringing this to the community's attention is taking a step in the right direction of gaining some form of civilized control over this type of conduct. Underlying point.

I want to chime in about the burden of etiquette. A few people here want to blame the victim of the harassment for "getting hurt." Responses like that are shallow excuses to do nothing about a problem. If that's your stance, either you don't care about this issue, or you're one of the people causing it. The people who do care aren't going to stop "letting it bother them." If you're a dick who picks on people in a game, you deserve to be called out and humiliated, and made to feel as horrible as the people you hurt. It's not the victim's fault for "letting it get to him (or her)."

This is a game. People come here for fun. If you can't have fun, then kindly GTFO so the people who enjoy this game can continue to do so. After all, if you're harassing people like the player in the OP's screenshots, don't kid yourself - you are not enjoying this game. You're addicted or sad, and you should probably find a better way to deal with those things.

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Originally Posted by Kirschey

The number of people who consistently try to make themselves a bother in an instance is fairly low from my experience. Report them and move on. Like someone else in this thread said previously, a one-time situation of some random person being a jerk doesn't make them a bully.
Also, people throw out insults of any type all the time.

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Tell someone at your work/college/social group/family to "Go cut your fucking throat" over a game and see if any of them shrug it off as "Oh, you're just being a jerk and throwing out insults like people do all the time.".

The problem here is with the person doling out the insults, not the person on the other end, offended or not.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

I think at this point that people who are the victims aren't particularly hurt by it. They just wish to see some more stricter regulations I suppose.

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This.

I've had people fight in my group and is not about getting hurt. People fighting creates tension and lowers the performance of the group. The tank can get mad and let the party die. Healer and one of the DPS are fighting, so the healer decides to stop healing the DPS and in result everyone else pays for it. People fighting spend a lot of time typing rather than focusing on what's happening, then there are deaths which leads to more fighting and name calling. We don't have a vote kick option, so everyone should keep their insults to themselves.

I'm not sure I understand half these posts. The OP wasn't in the party of the screenshot he just happens to be bringing a problem which can be considered the elephant in the room to attention. Instead people are telling him to grow thick skin, stop crying, and play bettter? :(

Let's not forget about diction, let's examine what can be said in the event a tank dies from taking too much damage because they are not using damage mitigation skills:

1. This boss seems to be doing a lot of damage, let's take a minute and make sure we all have damage mitigation skills equipped and are using them.

2. You need to use your rampart/convalescence.

3. Use your skills, it's not hard.

4. You suck and I want you replaced. (add dude/bro for extra effect though I'm not exactly if it's suppose to have a +/- effect on one's emotional state)

5. asdfjsdlkfj!@&^# (insert name calling)

I understand there can be an infinite number of possibilities but given these and if you were the tank, which would you prefer? Even though two different sentences can mean the same thing the way they are phrased can give drastically different impressions to both the speaker and the hearer. Personally I like using number 1 more since it gives off more of a team vibe than calling out a single person. Etiquette is important too, nothing establishes a tiny bit of camaraderie with people you may never play with again than a simple "Hello, nice to meet you!". I'd rather wipe once or twice in a dungeon where people have fun talking to one another and working it out than a 20 min silent treatment which quickly escalates into name-calling when someone blunders. Let's work together!